Awaseto Sho-Honyama 15k natural Stone micro chipping

[SwissKnifeCollector]

Hello everybody.

I recently made a big investment because I wanted to experience a new cutting experience with my knives.
I bought an Awaseto Sho-Honyama 45mm natural Stone for finishing and polishing. This is my first natural sharpening stone and I have struggled to get beautiful results with it, the edge doesn't get really sharp and in some places my Fujiwara Maboroshi even starts microchipping. Unfortunately, I cannot capture this with the camera, but I feel it and the paper cut test is very clear for me. I sharpen on the natural stone like i do the synthetic ones. According to the site, the stone is very hard.


I don't have a natural nigura at the moment, I use a piece of my old, broken off 1000 synthetic stone for the sludge formation. Does this make a big difference?

Those are my steps:

Naniwa 2k Green Brick of Joy -> Naniwa 8k Snow White(Junpaku) ->Awaseto Sho-Honyama 15k Stone

After snow white, the knife is incredibly sharp and practically mirror-polished, and has no chips.

I really hope that someone can draw a conclusion from this problem and give me some natural stone sharpening tips.

 

[nakiriknaifuwaifu]

Hello everybody.

I recently made a big investment because I wanted to experience a new cutting experience with my knives.
I bought an Awaseto Sho-Honyama 45mm natural Stone for finishing and polishing. This is my first natural sharpening stone and I have struggled to get beautiful results with it, the edge doesn't get really sharp and in some places my Fujiwara Maboroshi even starts microchipping. Unfortunately, I cannot capture this with the camera, but I feel it and the paper cut test is very clear for me. I sharpen on the natural stone like i do the synthetic ones. According to the site, the stone is very hard.


I don't have a natural nigura at the moment, I use a piece of my old, broken off 1000 synthetic stone for the sludge formation. Does this make a big difference?

Those are my steps:

Naniwa 2k Green Brick of Joy -> Naniwa 8k Snow White(Junpaku) ->Awaseto Sho-Honyama 15k Stone

After snow white, the knife is incredibly sharp and practically mirror-polished, and has no chips.

I really hope that someone can draw a conclusion from this problem and give me some natural stone sharpening tips.

Don't use a 1k nagura on a polishing stone; shouldn't be causing microchipping but you're contaminating grit there

Just strop on the Honyama without slurry.

 

[SwissKnifeCollector]

Don't use a 1k nagura on a polishing stone; shouldn't be causing microchipping but you're contaminating grit there.

Just strop on the Honyama without slurry.

Is this saying that I shouldn't use a nagura at all and only water? What is the best way to get the micro scratches from the 1000 out again to get to the original grit?

 

[KingShapton]

You can use a worn out diamond plate to create slurry from the stone yourself.

Alternatively, you can invest in a suitable natural nagura, a small piece of an Awasetos, that should work too.

A Tsushima-nagura should have the ability to "open" the surface of other natural stones again and make them grippy, which is also not that expensive ...

I am sorry that you had such a bad experience with your first natural stone. From what I know, a very hard jnat is not ideal to use as a beginner with natural stones ... softer jnats are better suited to start with.
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[SwissKnifeCollector]

You can use a worn out diamond plate to create slurry from the stone yourself.

Alternatively, you can invest in a suitable natural nagura, a small piece of an Awasetos, that should work too.

A Tsushima-nagura should have the ability to "open" the surface of other natural stones again and make them grippy, which is also not that expensive ...

I am sorry that you had such a bad experience with your first natural stone. From what I know, a very hard jnat is not ideal to use as a beginner with natural stones ... softer jnats are better suited to start with.
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Thank you for your answer. Then what exactly makes the hard stones so much more difficult to use than the soft ones? sorry if the question has already been dealt with here in the forum, but you seem to know a lot about it

 

[KingShapton]

Thank you for your answer. Then what exactly makes the hard stones so much more difficult to use than the soft ones? sorry if the question has already been dealt with here in the forum, but you seem to know a lot about it

For Jnats, there are much more competent members here than me. I'm more into arks and some european natural stones.

Still, from the princely point of view, softer jnats should give better feedback, are easier to use and more forgiving.

The same is with fine arks, very hard and an "unfamiliar" feedback. Some users compare it to sharpening on a glass plate. I see it differently myself, but that is a personal feeling. Maybe also because I have already worked with many hard natural stones.

If the Awaseto is so hard, you have to be extremely careful with the pressure exerted when sharpening, try to work with very little pressure. And you should control and hold the angle as precisely as possible!

A few more questions about your stone

did you buy the stone from a well-known and reputable supplier?

has the stone been tested by the seller prior to sale?

Is it possible that there are "toxic" inclusions or lines on the surface of the stone and that these have damaged the cutting edge?

 

[SwissKnifeCollector]

For Jnats, there are much more competent members here than me. I'm more into arks and some european natural stones.

Still, from the princely point of view, softer jnats should give better feedback, are easier to use and more forgiving.

The same is with fine arks, very hard and an "unfamiliar" feedback. Some users compare it to sharpening on a glass plate. I see it differently myself, but that is a personal feeling. Maybe also because I have already worked with many hard natural stones.

If the Awaseto is so hard, you have to be extremely careful with the pressure exerted when sharpening, try to work with very little pressure. And you should control and hold the angle as precisely as possible!

A few more questions about your stone

did you buy the stone from a well-known and reputable supplier?

has the stone been tested by the seller prior to sale?

Is it possible that there are "toxic" inclusions or lines on the surface of the stone and that these have damaged the cutting edge?

https://www.japanische-kochmesser.c...0/Awaseto-Sho-Honyama-45mm-Grade-A::3227.html
thats the one i bought. I know the seller by person, hes incredibely experiencend and i trust him on his products he delivered to me. I will attach you a file of the stone so you can judge it by yourself.

 

[SwissKnifeCollector]

 

[KingShapton]

Marco Röllin has a good reputation in German forums as far as I know.

I can hardly imagine that he will sell a defective stone as good. It could really be due to a mistake in handling / using the stone. But that would be good, that could be fixed !

Have you ever asked the seller if he might have a tip for using the stone?

 

[KingShapton]

The interface looks ok to me, but this is also the moment when other members with more Jnat experience should come into the game and judge it.

 

[SwissKnifeCollector]

Marco Röllin has a good reputation in German forums as far as I know.

I can hardly imagine that he will sell a defective stone as good. It could really be due to a mistake in handling / using the stone. But that would be good, that could be fixed !

Have you ever asked the seller if he might have a tip for using the stone?

nope I didnt.
I think it's more up to me, I put too much pressure on the stone and work with push and pull, maybe only pulling slow movements would be better at the beginning to keep the angle as good as possible to not to destroy this very fine edge.
I don't see the scratches as normal either, I've seen a few videos and it didn't look like that on anyone, time for a natural nagura

 

[KingShapton]

That sounds like a plan.

Another tip, synthetic stones deliver good results quickly and easily, natural stones are different ..

Sometimes it takes time to "understand" a natural stone, in extreme cases it can take a long time.

In your case, it is also your first natural stone. Take the time and see as a learning process that it will be easier with the next stone.

 

[Kentos]

I only speak from experience honing razors on jnats with 4 nagura progressions but:

If you run a synth 1000# nagura on the Jnat you are getting 1000# grit in the slurry and as you run the knife on the stone you are banging the grit between the edge of your knife and the hard jnat. IME natural abrasives break down over time and get smaller and smaller leading to a finer polish in the end. I would raise a slurry with a diamond plate as was was suggested and try finishing on that slurry instead. Very little pressure was needed with razors if any, though I don’t know how this translates to knives. GL!

 

[Rangen]

I'd love to be able to diagnose your chipping, but I can't. Was there any lack of smoothness while you were sharpening? I have hard JNats, though not the one you have, and they seem a lot less hard when you work up even a little slurry.

In my mind's eye, I imagine your blade chittering over the 1000 grit contamination, taking divots along the way, but of course I have no idea if that was what happened.

I agree with others who suggested backing way, way off on the pressure. By the time you get to a finisher as fine as the one you have, you're not so much sharpening a knife as sculpting a tiny, tiny bit of metal at the very edge.

 

[DHunter86]

I don't have a natural nigura at the moment, I use a piece of my old, broken off 1000 synthetic stone for the sludge formation. Does this make a big difference?

As others have said, this basically kills any advantage you get off the JNat as the 1000 synthetic stone slurry isn't readily friable. The chipping may be due to the pressure applied and the grinding of the 1000 grit slurry against a very very hard JNat. Those 1000 grit particles may even cut loose some Jnat bits that cause the chips.

"sehr hart mit gleichmässigem Gefüge" taken from the product description, so your JNat isn't readily useful for polishing but probably for sharpening. If you have an Atoma plate, try the following: raise a slurry with it and use light pressure; alternatively, lap the stone, then wash off the slurry, it should then cut slightly faster, again with light pressure. Don't fret if you need many more passes, as JNats usually cut slower than synthetics. Slow and easy is the key since the stone is super hard, extra pressure won't speed it up too much, but ruin your edge instead.

Hard JNats aren't easy for a beginner, I shelved mine for months till I became a little better skilled at it.