Breads Bavarian "Brezen" (Pretzels)

[Michi]

Getting those knobs right is a bit more fiddly than I thought it would be, but they’ve come up okay.

The one at the bottom is the best one, IMO

 

[NameAlreadyTaken]

Thanks mate. I appreciate the feedback.

I’ve got some finessing questions:

1) How thick should the “crust” be? I’m guessing that the combination of uncovered fridge time to try and harden the exterior for handling combined with the lye and magic water spray is contributing to get about 1mm of crust, which has a satisfying crack and crunch, but I’m aware is different to pretty much all shop bought brezen that I’ve ever tried, which have almost no crust at all, just a slightly coloured exterior and then basically bread all the way through. Given I have no experience of history in Bavarian, what is “normal”?
I’m just wondering if I’m fridge drying for a smidge too long or maybe water misting too much (just a single spray front and back)?

2) My sourdough starter for the preferment is rye based and much slower than many wheat starters that I’ve seen, but I do like the flavour. I tried prefermenting for 48 hours in this batch (kind of by accident), but it did seem to be a better overall flavour. I’m guessing the preferment is just there for flavour so dialling that in is more of a “your mileage may vary” sort of situation where I’ve just got to muck around and see what works best for what I’ve got?

3) I was thinking about the lard thing, and the fact that there’s been a correlation between Christian religious depictions of brezen. In other countries, shrove Tuesday was traditionally where you’d try and eat up all the fat and carbs in the house ahead of the lent fasting (so I’m told, I never got into that much myself), and apparently Pancake Tuesday is a remnant of that tradition. Is it possible that the brezen might have originated or come to fame through inclusion in feasting prior to lent? I’ve no experience of the Christian rituals of Germany, but it might explain why monks were painting pictures of twisted bread.

 

[Michi]

Thanks mate. I appreciate the feedback.

I’ve got some finessing questions:

1) How thick should the “crust” be? I’m guessing that the combination of uncovered fridge time to try and harden the exterior for handling combined with the lye and magic water spray is contributing to get about 1mm of crust, which has a satisfying crack and crunch, but I’m aware is different to pretty much all shop bought brezen that I’ve ever tried, which have almost no crust at all, just a slightly coloured exterior and then basically bread all the way through. Given I have no experience of history in Bavarian, what is “normal”?

I've never measured the thickness of my crusts They should be crispy and splintery. I wouldn't over-think it. They come out whatever thickness they like after baking and having reached the right colour.

I’m just wondering if I’m fridge drying for a smidge too long or maybe water misting too much (just a single spray front and back)?

Again, I wouldn't overthink it. If they are crispy and glossy, they are right.

2) My sourdough starter for the preferment is rye based and much slower than many wheat starters that I’ve seen, but I do like the flavour. I tried prefermenting for 48 hours in this batch (kind of by accident), but it did seem to be a better overall flavour. I’m guessing the preferment is just there for flavour so dialling that in is more of a “your mileage may vary” sort of situation where I’ve just got to muck around and see what works best for what I’ve got?

There is no right or wrong here. I made Brezen with a sourdough preferment only twice so far, as an experiment. The sourdough preferment is definitely not traditional. I just like the more complex flavour and the better oven spring I get that way. Letting the preferment sit for two days is not a problem. Even three days would work fine, I expect.

I'm thinking of making a batch entirely with sourdough, just to see what happens

3) I was thinking about the lard thing, and the fact that there’s been a correlation between Christian religious depictions of brezen. In other countries, shrove Tuesday was traditionally where you’d try and eat up all the fat and carbs in the house ahead of the lent fasting (so I’m told, I never got into that much myself), and apparently Pancake Tuesday is a remnant of that tradition. Is it possible that the brezen might have originated or come to fame through inclusion in feasting prior to lent? I’ve no experience of the Christian rituals of Germany, but it might explain why monks were painting pictures of twisted bread.

I have absolutely no idea. In times gone by, lard was cheaper than butter, and lots of things were fried with lard. In more modern times. people got more health conscious, which might be why there was a switch to butter at some point.

I don't think Brezen have anything to do with Lent; at least, none of the reading I've done suggests any kind of religious connection. The Brezen might be in Christian paintings simply because, at some point, a lot of paintings had religious themes, and Brezen would have been a common food.

 

[NameAlreadyTaken]

Cool. Thanks mate.
It’s the splintery crust that I’ve never really experienced on store bought brezen here in Australia, hence the question. All the brezen I’ve had here are more like painted bread with almost no crust at all.

Do let us know how your fully sourdough versions get on!

You make a good point about cost and availability of lard. Maybe the religious images were just a reflection of what was being eaten out in the community therefore making a religious deity seem more of an Everyman. I just find it fascinating that it’s been deliberately captured in the historical record so long ago.

 

[Michi]

It’s the splintery crust that I’ve never really experienced on store bought brezen here in Australia, hence the question. All the brezen I’ve had here are more like painted bread with almost no crust at all.

That's because they aren't proper Brezen

Do let us know how your fully sourdough versions get on!

Will do. I think the next batch will be my normal one, except for lard substituted for the butter. I want to see how that turns out first.

You make a good point about cost and availability of lard. Maybe the religious images were just a reflection of what was being eaten out in the community therefore making a religious deity seem more of an Everyman. I just find it fascinating that it’s been deliberately captured in the historical record so long ago.

It suggests that this shape has been around for a long time and was common, rather than being of religious significance. After all, if you roll a piece of dough into a snake, there are only so many things you can do with it. The Brezen shape will pop up naturally as people play around. I would expect it to have been "invented" multiple times independently in lots of different locations.

 

[rickbern]

@Michi I just read this article, thought you would be interested

https://www.seriouseats.com/bavarian-style-soft-pretzels-recipe-7967998

 

[Michi]

@Michi I just read this article, thought you would be interested

Thanks for that! For once, a recipe that actually deserves the name. This reads pretty well and should produce decent Brezen.

Criticisms:

• The Brezen are shaped well, but should be a bit larger overall.
• Dipping the dough into lye for 30-40 seconds is way too long. That's appropriate for dipping them in a hot baking soda solution, not lye. For lye, 5 seconds is right.
• I've tried cold-fermenting them overnight in the fridge. That didn't work out so well; they were hopelessly over-proofed. The point of putting them into the fridge is not to cold-ferment them, but to stiffen them up, so they are easier to handle and don't fall apart when dipping them.
• Not mentioned: spraying them with water the instant they come out of the oven makes a huge difference to the final look and texture of the crust.

And, please, don't dip them in mustard. Instead, eat them with a few flakes of butter, or slice them like a sandwich, spread the cut side with butter, dip them cut side down into very finely chopped chives, and put the two halves together again.

Putting one or two slices of Swiss cheese into the sandwich instead of chives is also nice, and culturally appropriate

 

[rickbern]

FWIW, he does actually mention the spritz

Wearing gloves and protective eyewear, transfer one pretzel to the lye bath, bottom side up, and let sit for 30 to 40 seconds. (If necessary, use a non-reactive spoon to gently keep the pretzel fully submerged.) Using gloved hands, transfer the pretzel face up to the rack to drain. Repeat with the remaining pretzels. When all the pretzels have been dipped, transfer them back to the original rimmed baking sheet face up and spaced evenly apart. Sprinkle pretzels evenly with pretzel salt and transfer to oven. Bake until dark brown, 12 to 14 minutes. (The lye-dipped pretzels will naturally be darker than the ones dipped in baking soda.) Using a spray bottle, mist pretzels lightly with water and return to oven until the pretzels have a glossy sheen, 30 seconds.

 

[Michi]

FWIW, he does actually mention the spritz

Wearing gloves and protective eyewear, transfer one pretzel to the lye bath, bottom side up, and let sit for 30 to 40 seconds. (If necessary, use a non-reactive spoon to gently keep the pretzel fully submerged.) Using gloved hands, transfer the pretzel face up to the rack to drain. Repeat with the remaining pretzels. When all the pretzels have been dipped, transfer them back to the original rimmed baking sheet face up and spaced evenly apart. Sprinkle pretzels evenly with pretzel salt and transfer to oven. Bake until dark brown, 12 to 14 minutes. (The lye-dipped pretzels will naturally be darker than the ones dipped in baking soda.) Using a spray bottle, mist pretzels lightly with water and return to oven until the pretzels have a glossy sheen, 30 seconds.

Oh, me bad, I overlooked that. Thank you!

 

[ian]

Someone at Serious Eats has been reading KKF.

 

[rickbern]

Someone at Serious Eats has wbeen reading KKF.

I actually followed the link to find out who, exactly, his baking guru was. It was interesting, a German baking school in Vermont. When you tell a recent grad to follow their passion, she’s who they’re talking about

Note for the aussies- Vermont is a small rural state that’s 4-6 hours away from any significant population center.

https://brotbakery.com/about

 

[Michi]

Someone at Serious Eats has been reading KKF.

I actually followed the link to find out who, exactly, his baking guru was. It was interesting, a German baking school in Vermont. When you tell a recent grad to follow their passion, she’s who they’re talking about

As a professional bakery, I doubt they need any help from KKF. And it does explain why this is one of the very few recipes on the net that actually make sense.

Note for the aussies- Vermont is a small rural state that’s 4-6 hours away from any significant population center.

https://brotbakery.com/about

I've spent several weeks in Vermont. My brother in law lives near Burlington

 

[Michi]

I just made another batch, using lard instead of butter this time. TBH, there isn't much of a difference. Not really a surprise, seeing that the fat content in the recipe is less than 2% of the total.

Citrus-cured salmon visible on the side.