Beefy nakiri comparison - seeking advice!

[PPIIBBSS]

Hi all, first time posting

I have been a chef all my life, but recently started down the rabbit hole of japanese knives. I am deciding between these two nakiris, and I'd love to get some input!

Watanabe pro 180mm blue 2 nakiri:
https://www.kitchen-knife.jp/pro/nakkiri.htm
Mutsumi Hinoura 180mm white 2
https://sharpknifeshop.com/products/mutsumi-hinoura-kurouchi-nakiri-180-mm
Basically here's my dillemma:

I strongly prefer a heavier/ thicker knife in general, and the Hinoura seems to be the beefier knife of the two. I am also keen to try white steel, as I already own a blue 2 funayuki from Kyohei Shindo.

The Watanabe, while being more nimble, is also no laser, and it has such an amazing reputation for pure cutting performance. If the performance is truly far superior, I would accept a slightly less hefty knife. I would not want a laser nakiri though, it must still be a workhorse at heart.

What I'd like to try to determine, with help from you amazing folks, is:

A) Just how MUCH beefier the Hinoura is, and

B) Just how MUCH better the cutting performance is on the Watanabe.

The price difference is not a factor

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I haven't used a Hinoura but I've used a 180 Wat Pro a lot and it is excellent. Many here regard it as the gold standard nakiri. The grind is very well executed to an almost zero edge and I've never encountered a task it couldn't handle. Mine with Enju handle comes in at 203g and right at 60mm height. It's no lightweight.

Maybe @nakiriknaifuwaifu can help. Not sure if he's used the Hinoura.

 

[nakiriknaifuwaifu]

I haven't used a Hinoura but I've used a 180 Wat Pro a lot and it is excellent. Many here regard it as the gold standard nakiri. The grind is very well executed to an almost zero edge and I've never encountered a task it couldn't handle. Mine with Enju handle comes in at 203g and right at 60mm height. It's no lightweight.

Maybe @nakiriknaifuwaifu can help. Not sure if he's used the Hinoura.

Let me open by saying there is no doubt in my mind you should buy the Watanabe first.

I have a Tsukasa Hinoura, not the Mutsumi/Ajikataya Hinoura. There is nothing like the Toyama knife in terms of cutting performance. The Tsukasa Hinoura manages to feel more thin and be more wedge-prone at the same time (I use it for softer produce like greenbeans or pico de gallo or something). I have never felt the urge to buy a Ajikataya nakiri. Something about the profile is kinda bleh. The steel from the few examples I have seen is middling. Which is bad for a white 2.

Also consider:

Moritaka - solid toyota camry of nakiri, after the many nakiri i have owned, still regret selling it (love you @BillHanna)
Wakui - goob white 2 in well-cutting package, also very affordable (check Aframes)
Munetoshi - have heard goob things about it, rustic, not thin
Shigefusa - goob but hard to find in 180mm and is very work horse
Mazaki - goob thick knaifu, nice white 2
Kato White 1 180mm - hahahahahahaha (i'd buy one if i was rich but im not so i just hate)
Yoshikane - goob n thim naifu egselent pakege

Yoshi, Wakui I would grab before the Ajikatyakakayamakshakalakaboomboom

 

[PPIIBBSS]

Let me open by saying there is no doubt in my mind you should buy the Watanabe first.

I have a Tsukasa Hinoura, not the Mutsumi/Ajikataya Hinoura. There is nothing like the Toyama knife in terms of cutting performance. The Tsukasa Hinoura manages to feel more thin and be more wedge-prone at the same time (I use it for softer produce like greenbeans or pico de gallo or something). I have never felt the urge to buy a Ajikataya nakiri. Something about the profile is kinda bleh. The steel from the few examples I have seen is middling. Which is bad for a white 2.

Also consider:

Moritaka - solid toyota camry of nakiri, after the many nakiri i have owned, still regret selling it (love you @BillHanna)
Wakui - goob white 2 in well-cutting package, also very affordable (check Aframes)
Munetoshi - have heard goob things about it, rustic, not thin
Shigefusa - goob but hard to find in 180mm and is very work horse
Mazaki - goob thick knaifu, nice white 2
Kato White 1 180mm - hahahahahahaha (i'd buy one if i was rich but im not so i just hate)
Yoshikane - goob n thim naifu egselent pakege

Yoshi, Wakui I would grab before the Ajikatyakakayamakshakalakaboomboom

Wow thank you so much for this amazingly detailed reply I've looked into the other options you gave, and if you don't mind, I'd like to follow up

So first, you've talked me out of the hinoura haha. About the others...

Moritaka- I'm concerned it will feel too light at 163g, and not a fan of the super rectangular geometry

Wakui- I like this one. I was not familar with Wakui before, I'm gonna consider this as an option. I still prefer the geometry on the other two I mentioned a bit more, and I'm willing to spend the money for something great

Shigefusa 165mm- this was actually my #1 choice for nakiri, I'm not set on 180mm. But it's just impossible to find it seems

Munetoshi- looks great for its price, but very light at 163g, and I'm wanting something top-tier for my nakiri

Mazaki- also looks like a great option for me. Very hefty, and less pricey than some others. It has that super rectangular shape I don't love, but overall it coild be a contender.

I think I've narrowed it down to:
- Watanabe 180mm
- Shigefusa 165mm (if I can find it)
- Wakui 180mm
- Mazaki (also tough to find, especially 180mm)

If you were selecting from these 4 knives, ignoring budget, but just looking at quality alone, also considering my preference for a beefier knife, are there clear winners and clear losers in your opinion?

 

[PPIIBBSS]

I haven't used a Hinoura but I've used a 180 Wat Pro a lot and it is excellent. Many here regard it as the gold standard nakiri. The grind is very well executed to an almost zero edge and I've never encountered a task it couldn't handle. Mine with Enju handle comes in at 203g and right at 60mm height. It's no lightweight.

Maybe @nakiriknaifuwaifu can help. Not sure if he's used the Hinoura.

Amazing thank you! Also thanks for summoning the genie of nakiri knowledge as well haha

 

[daniel_il]

not a nakiri guy but my 180 Heiji is pretty good, prefer my Heiji over my 180 watanabe because of the iron clad and lower height.

would like to try mazaki and wakui. haven't seen 180 Munetoshi available , could be interesting too..

 

[nakiriknaifuwaifu]

Wow thank you so much for this amazingly detailed reply I've looked into the other options you gave, and if you don't mind, I'd like to follow up

So first, you've talked me out of the hinoura haha. About the others...

Moritaka- I'm concerned it will feel too light at 163g, and not a fan of the super rectangular geometry

Wakui- I like this one. I was not familar with Wakui before, I'm gonna consider this as an option. I still prefer the geometry on the other two I mentioned a bit more, and I'm willing to spend the money for something great

Shigefusa 165mm- this was actually my #1 choice for nakiri, I'm not set on 180mm. But it's just impossible to find it seems

Munetoshi- looks great for its price, but very light at 163g, and I'm wanting something top-tier for my nakiri

Mazaki- also looks like a great option for me. Very hefty, and less pricey than some others. It has that super rectangular shape I don't love, but overall it coild be a contender.

I think I've narrowed it down to:
- Watanabe 180mm
- Shigefusa 165mm (if I can find it)
- Wakui 180mm
- Mazaki (also tough to find, especially 180mm)

If you were selecting from these 4 knives, ignoring budget, but just looking at quality alone, also considering my preference for a beefier knife, are there clear winners and clear losers in your opinion?

Watanabe is such a pleasure to use ita difficult for me to not recommend it abive the other options. It's not a laser per se but it does taper thin. The cutting feel is satisfying but clinical.

Shigefusa I think is ground too thick for its length and height at thr 165mm model. The 180mm is ground as thick but with added height and length is better cutting. I sold my 165mm as it was a brick and I didn't like snapping carrots.

What about Heiji? Also suffers from brick tendencies IMO but that's on the board too now for a WH nakiri that I think about it.

Tsukasa KU 165

 

[ModRQC]

Wakui Migaki I had was rather laserish and on the lighter side. Perhaps if you can find one of his KU-Nash A#2 series it would fit your requirements more.

Old Mazaki was a beast of a Nakiri. Over 220 grams IIRC with a Ho wood handle. New Maz nowadays they're much lighter - if my cross checking was done correctly. In the Wakui Migaki area.

Just saying.

 

[binsed]

Of the somewhat easily available nakiris, I’ve got the wat pro and Heiji. I’d say the wat pro for what you’re looking for. Love the height and the heft it gives while still being thinly ground.

Don’t overlook the profile, overly square profiles can take some time to get used to. I’ve had to round off some tips because it would get stuck on my boards when cutting.

 

[M1k3]

Watanabe.

Fin.

 

[PPIIBBSS]

not a nakiri guy but my 180 Heiji is pretty good, prefer my Heiji over my 180 watanabe because of the iron clad and lower height.

would like to try mazaki and wakui. haven't seen 180 Munetoshi available , could be interesting too..

Hmm very interesting. Might I ask why you prefer iron cladding to stainless? I was under the impression stainless cladding was generally considered "better," but I'm very much still learning all this!

 

[PPIIBBSS]

Of the somewhat easily available nakiris, I’ve got the wat pro and Heiji. I’d say the wat pro for what you’re looking for. Love the height and the heft it gives while still being thinly ground.

Don’t overlook the profile, overly square profiles can take some time to get used to. I’ve had to round off some tips because it would get stuck on my boards when cutting.

Thanks so much! I 100% agree, I like the more rounded end on the watanabe and shigefusa, both functionally and aesthetically

 

[PPIIBBSS]

Wakui Migaki I had was rather laserish and on the lighter side. Perhaps if you can find one of his KU-Nash A#2 series it would fit your requirements more.

Old Mazaki was a beast of a Nakiri. Over 220 grams IIRC with a Ho wood handle. New Maz nowadays they're much lighter - if my cross checking was done correctly. In the Wakui Migaki area.

Just saying.

This is actually really helpful! It's great to have some insight as to how these smiths have changed over time

 

[PPIIBBSS]

Watanabe is such a pleasure to use ita difficult for me to not recommend it abive the other options. It's not a laser per se but it does taper thin. The cutting feel is satisfying but clinical.

Shigefusa I think is ground too thick for its length and height at thr 165mm model. The 180mm is ground as thick but with added height and length is better cutting. I sold my 165mm as it was a brick and I didn't like snapping carrots.

What about Heiji? Also suffers from brick tendencies IMO but that's on the board too now for a WH nakiri that I think about it.

Tsukasa KU 165
View attachment 243764

The Heiji definitely looks too pointy for me haha. I think I've been convinced to buy the Watanabe!

 

[M1k3]

Hmm very interesting. Might I ask why you prefer iron cladding to stainless? I was under the impression stainless cladding was generally considered "better," but I'm very much still learning all this!

Depends on your definition of "better". For not having to worry about rust, yes. For polishing, no.

Iron cladding is easier to grind AND create a kasumi finish.

 

[ModRQC]

Also iron clads befit feedback of the carbon cores they always match with better.

 

[M1k3]

Depends on your definition of "better". For not having to worry about rust, yes. For polishing, no.

Iron cladding is easier to grind AND create a kasumi finish.

And the sweet patina!

 

[daniel_il]

Hmm very interesting. Might I ask why you prefer iron cladding to stainless? I was under the impression stainless cladding was generally considered "better," but I'm very much still learning all this!

iron clad just much easier for thinning and polishing, of course stainless got some other benefits.

got to say Heiji could vary quite a lot, my Heiji nakiri is very very thin behind the edge and cutting like a laser. some others might got a thicker geometry blade from Heiji.

watanabe\ toyama is much more consistent and usually amazing cutters. its much safer bet and also easier to sell later if desired.

in my case, both great but i prefer the Heiji based on the height cause its easier to maneuver.

 

[PPIIBBSS]

iron clad just much easier for thinning and polishing, of course stainless got some other benefits.

got to say Heiji could vary quite a lot, my Heiji nakiri is very very thin behind the edge and cutting like a laser. some others might got a thicker geometry blade from Heiji.

watanabe\ toyama is much more consistent and usually amazing cutters. its much safer bet and also easier to sell later if desired.

in my case, both great but i prefer the Heiji based on the height cause its easier to maneuver.

Ah I see, thanks so much for your input! Any preference between a toyama 180mm vs a watanabe 180mm? I'm curious as to how they differ.

 

[nakiriknaifuwaifu]

Ah I see, thanks so much for your input! Any preference between a toyama 180mm vs a watanabe 180mm? I'm curious as to how they differ.

same smith, buy the one that is cooler to you. i prefer the lowbevel shape personally
also, what about Takeda? that nakiri was light but sorta wedgey with good food release
btw, that reminds me: geometry is a bigger influence on how a knife feels than just pure weight so take everything with a grain of salt
@ethompson has one

 

[simona]

Wow thank you so much for this amazingly detailed reply I've looked into the other options you gave, and if you don't mind, I'd like to follow up

So first, you've talked me out of the hinoura haha. About the others...

Moritaka- I'm concerned it will feel too light at 163g, and not a fan of the super rectangular geometry

Wakui- I like this one. I was not familar with Wakui before, I'm gonna consider this as an option. I still prefer the geometry on the other two I mentioned a bit more, and I'm willing to spend the money for something great

Shigefusa 165mm- this was actually my #1 choice for nakiri, I'm not set on 180mm. But it's just impossible to find it seems

Munetoshi- looks great for its price, but very light at 163g, and I'm wanting something top-tier for my nakiri

Mazaki- also looks like a great option for me. Very hefty, and less pricey than some others. It has that super rectangular shape I don't love, but overall it coild be a contender.

I think I've narrowed it down to:
- Watanabe 180mm
- Shigefusa 165mm (if I can find it)
- Wakui 180mm
- Mazaki (also tough to find, especially 180mm)

If you were selecting from these 4 knives, ignoring budget, but just looking at quality alone, also considering my preference for a beefier knife, are there clear winners and clear losers in your opinion?

"Shigefusa 165mm- this was actually my #1 choice for nakiri, I'm not set on 180mm. But it's just impossible to find it seems "

https://www.jauce.com/auction/f1092264565
This seller sells a lot of Shigefusa. This is the second time he is listing this in the last few weeks. His measuring swings a bit, ask for a shot alongside a ruler. I agree with previous comments about the 165 being a brick though.

The Mazaki is a nice knife, good weight and good cutting feel.

The best two I have tried are Mikami and Okubo.
Of these 4 the Mikami stands 1st, Okubo 2nd.

Surface feel and texture of cut vegetables from the Mikami the best of the 4.

https://knifejapan.com/mikami-hamono-nakiri-bocho-160mm-aogami-1/
https://knifejapan.com/okubo-kajiya-nakiri-170mm-aogami-2/

 

[simona]

same smith, buy the one that is cooler to you. i prefer the lowbevel shape personally
also, what about Takeda? that nakiri was light but sorta wedgey with good food release
btw, that reminds me: geometry is a bigger influence on how a knife feels than just pure weight so take everything with a grain of salt
@ethompson has one

Could buy a Takeda bunka - just a nakiri with a pointy end Great food release, nice food surface, little flex but total laser. Talking food release, nothing I have used beats Suzuki Uchi Hamono Shirogami Kurouchi Single Bevel Nakiri 165mm - the santuko at least, no reason why the nakiri should be different.

 

[Delat]

Wow thank you so much for this amazingly detailed reply I've looked into the other options you gave, and if you don't mind, I'd like to follow up

So first, you've talked me out of the hinoura haha. About the others...

Moritaka- I'm concerned it will feel too light at 163g, and not a fan of the super rectangular geometry

Wakui- I like this one. I was not familar with Wakui before, I'm gonna consider this as an option. I still prefer the geometry on the other two I mentioned a bit more, and I'm willing to spend the money for something great

Shigefusa 165mm- this was actually my #1 choice for nakiri, I'm not set on 180mm. But it's just impossible to find it seems

Munetoshi- looks great for its price, but very light at 163g, and I'm wanting something top-tier for my nakiri

Mazaki- also looks like a great option for me. Very hefty, and less pricey than some others. It has that super rectangular shape I don't love, but overall it coild be a contender.

I think I've narrowed it down to:
- Watanabe 180mm
- Shigefusa 165mm (if I can find it)
- Wakui 180mm
- Mazaki (also tough to find, especially 180mm)

If you were selecting from these 4 knives, ignoring budget, but just looking at quality alone, also considering my preference for a beefier knife, are there clear winners and clear losers in your opinion?

I love my Wakui nakiri (migaki) but as mentioned above it’s on the laserish side.

 

[blokey]

Toyama 210, absolutely beast

 

[PPIIBBSS]

In the end, I ordered the Watanabe 180mm He said he'll pick me the tallest blade he's got! Very excited to hack up some veg!

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

In the end, I ordered the Watanabe 180mm He said he'll pick me the tallest blade he's got! Very excited to hack up some veg!

Hopefully Toyama sent him some extra tall ones.

 

[PPIIBBSS]

Hopefully Toyama sent him some extra tall ones.

From the various listings I've seen, it seems they vary from 55mm-63mm. As long as mine is 59+, I'll be a happy camper ... Acutally, I'll be a happy camper regardless haha. I'll report back after it arrives!

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

From the various listings I've seen, it seems they vary from 55mm-63mm. As long as mine is 59+, I'll be a happy camper ... Acutally, I'll be a happy camper regardless haha. I'll report back after it arrives!

Mine runs around 61mm at the heel and 58/9ish at the "tip".