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I've only just noticed this but it's kind of annoying that in English that 'short' is the opposite of both 'tall' and 'long'.

(So that in the above post I had to write 'less tall' to make it clear what I was saying.)
 
Daovua: 200x95mm, 330g
CCK: 210x86mm, 253g

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as seen here I was wrong: the CCK is way thinner. But the DV cuts like it is. I tried to get a sense of the geometry with a reference straight and it seems to be asymmetrically convex. Also it seems lighter than it is; maybe the weird shaped handle gives it better balance? The stainless Yang Jiang is only 30g heavier but feels like much more.

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It’s so not straight! Everything in theory would tell me that the twist makes it effectively thicker and therefore to predict poor performance on e.g. Dicing onions and slicing fat carrots. But in practice this doesn’t seem to have an effect and it cuts straight and smoothly. Note that this is only my instance — I may just have gotten lucky, all the errors cancel out or something. Anyhow between the two the DV is definitely better.

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absent: Yang Jiang stainless and Tanaka heavyweight
 
cotedupy said:
(So that in the above post I had to write 'less tall' to make it clear what I was saying.)
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Which makes perfect sense, but I agree, English words are a PITA, mostly because they're English, meaning they're just stolen from all over the place. It's the English way.
 
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I actually like the heavier cleavers. I have the Sugimoto CM4030 for when I want something light and nimble, but more often I grab the Sugimoto No 6 (480g) or a Watanabe (Toyama makes these, I guess?) 480g or 580g. I guess if I were using it all day, I might find it fatiguing, but I'm not, and I really like how the extra weight makes a lot of things easy. Even find plenty of uses for the 680g Saji. For example: cutting 5 lbs of chuck roast into cubes small enough to fit in the KitchenAid grinder (yeah, I know, I need a real grinder). It's a pain with a light knife/cleaver, and a breeze with the big heavy one.
 
DrEriksson said:
I might be in the running for the weirdest cleaver trio. Satake Kuro (heavy cleaver with VG10 core), Dalman Chinese cleaver (100 mm), and Global GS-102 (which I actually like a lot).

View attachment 97130
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I like this triptych... covers all bases!

The Dalman looks rather nice. Do they normally have that amount of curvature? Or is the perspective on that picture a bit deceiving?
 
cotedupy said:
The grip that I think is ideal for this kind of cleaver involves your index and middle fingers extended in a v-shape down the outside of the blade, with your thumb on the inside. This gives a level of control which you can't really get on less tall cleavers, because your fingers would extend over the edge. And which, kinda counter-intuitively, makes smaller cleavers less easy to use.

Did that make sense...?
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*long sigh* It made so much sense, I'm shopping for a cleaver with less belly. Thanks FOR NOTHING. When my wife complains, I'm sending her to you.

And now I get why the stubby handle on some of them.
 
cotedupy said:
I like this triptych... covers all bases!

The Dalman looks rather nice. Do they normally have that amount of curvature? Or is the perspective on that picture a bit deceiving?
Click to expand...

I'm happy with how the cleavers complement each other, but I'd prefer something a bit more fun than the Satake. I would also really enjoy a custom mini cleaver, but I'm not sure if it's what I would prioritize in terms of getting more knives.

Regarding the geometry. Added two pics, one showing the belly of the cleaver. It does not have a straight profile, and it's possible to do a little rocking with it. When I took some more pictures now, I noticed that the wide-angle lens of the phone camera can really exacerbate the curvature. I think the profile works great, but I'm also not used to the really straight Chinese cleavers.

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That Dalman cleaver looks sweet. I actually like some belly on a cleaver as I mostly use them for push cutting. CCK1303 is about right belly-wise for my taste.
 
Matus said:
That Dalman cleaver looks sweet. I actually like some belly on a cleaver as I mostly use them for push cutting. CCK1303 is about right belly-wise for my taste.
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Regardless of cutting style, I've never had issues with not contacting with the board and getting a proper cut with my Dalman cleaver. Would like to try different types of cleavers though. Only problem is they take so much space on my knife blocks and they don't fit in a drawer. (Except for the Global mini-cleaver. I'm not displaying that in public. It's my dirty little secret.)
 
I currently have two:

* Sugimoto 4030 stainless: nice weight, but a little thick for my taste and more belly than I prefer. I'll probably sell or trade this soon if anyone's looking :)
* LaSeur in 52100: phenomenal. Thin and light but very stiff, great edge profile, takes a wicked edge, and mildly reactive for some patina fun.
 
DrEriksson said:
I might be in the running for the weirdest cleaver trio. Satake Kuro (heavy cleaver with VG10 core), Dalman Chinese cleaver (100 mm), and Global GS-102 (which I actually like a lot).

View attachment 97130
Click to expand...

I have a totally irrational urge to get a small knife like that GS-102. Keep looking at the Takeda Ko-bunka and Ko-nakiri as options. Then I look at the price and think that I should just get some blanks made at Jarod Todd and grind them out myself.
 
esoo said:
I have a totally irrational urge to get a small knife like that GS-102. Keep looking at the Takeda Ko-bunka and Ko-nakiri as options. Then I look at the price and think that I should just get some blanks made at Jarod Todd and grind them out myself.
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The Global in action:

Those Takeda look sweet. Would not mind one. My small knife combo is an 80/33 mm petty from Smedja Aspen, and an 150/55 mm bunka from Heldqvist smide.

I do see the point on the price of the Takeda. I got my Global from doing surveys online, so I did not spend any money on it. Find it hard to motivate that cost for a novelty knife - even though I ended up liking it. So if a hand-made small (max 90 mm long) cleaver pops up, I might consider it.
 
DrEriksson said:
The Global in action:

Those Takeda look sweet. Would not mind one. My small knife combo is an 80/33 mm petty from Smedja Aspen, and an 150/55 mm bunka from Heldqvist smide.

I do see the point on the price of the Takeda. I got my Global from doing surveys online, so I did not spend any money on it. Find it hard to motivate that cost for a novelty knife - even though I ended up liking it. So if a hand-made small (max 90 mm long) cleaver pops up, I might consider it.
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Works a lot like I expected.

I totally understand the price on the Takeda - the difference in work between a 120 and 165 mm bunka/nakiri is minimal, so to keep the knife profitable you have the charge the money.
 
BillHanna said:
*long sigh* It made so much sense, I'm shopping for a cleaver with less belly. Thanks FOR NOTHING. When my wife complains, I'm sending her to you.

And now I get why the stubby handle on some of them.
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Excellent... I do like to be a cleaver enabler!

(Tho I'm afraid I already have one wife to complain about the amount I spend on kitchen knives, so can't accept another at this time.)
 
josemartinlopez said:
So how does a custom cleaver outperform a CCK?
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Aside from better steel, I think the rest is all boiled down to your preference for profile(flat or big belly), size and weight.

Personally, I find cck1303 too light to take full advantage of cleaver design. I like flatter cleavers that weight around 450-480 in 220-225 (2:1 length to height).

Not many check all the boxes other than going custom.
 
Does a 450g cleaver feel too heavy if you got used to 250g and lighter Japanese knives?
 
I've tried CCK 1303, Dalman 185X80, and handled but didn't use Suien VC. Liked Dalman the best, CCK was also good outside of the steel, but excellent for the price. Suien was just too big for me, so sold without even trying, could tell right away that it is not for me.
 
Of the dozen or so cleavers I’ve used, my favorites are:
1. My 3 Dalman cleavers — all awesome and super fun to use. Always have one in my rotation.
2. Kemadi Bulat cleaver — the steel is absolutely awesome and has a ton of bite.
3. Laseur — a 52100 that’s modeled after CCK1303 but better in every way (except price lol). And now waiting for Tony’s S-grind cleaver in AEB-L! I think Tony’s cleavers are highly underrated. If you love cleavers, I encourage you to try!
 
RDalman said:
No. And I'm fairly thin too😛. Grip and weight does the work.
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Is that a fair comparison though? Someone told me Robert knives always feel like they are 1/10 the weight when you hold them.
 
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