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cotedupy

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??? What do you think is a $15 equivalent to a CCK (X)? Or I could buy 3 of the $15 in different sizes.
Any suggestions?
I've bought and used quite a few Two Lions Brand cleavers which come in about $10 USD. The F&F is not that of the better brands. But they're pretty acceptable knives, and astonishing for the money.
 

Noodle Soup

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Might be back on team cleaver after thinning a Sugimoto #7 to like a 6.5.
Not sure why you would want to do that. I use my No. 7 for heavy chopping the thin vegetable models aren't suit for. That required raising the edge bevels, not lowering them. There are plenty of thin blades out there but not too many of the medium weight choppers.
 

Nagakin

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Not sure why you would want to do that. I use my No. 7 for heavy chopping the thin vegetable models aren't suit for. That required raising the edge bevels, not lowering them. There are plenty of thin blades out there but not too many of the medium weight choppers.
There are only bone cleavers and everything else cleavers to me. I don't have chopping and slicing cleavers for the same reason I don't have chopping and slicing gyuto. That sounds insane to me. Thin or middleweight, I'm using it for everything or it sucks and I share the same sentiment about any general Chef's knife.

Some are more suited to one than the other, but that doesn't eliminate the ability to do both. Having an extra 70g (so like a #6.7 if we want to be more accurate) and the same thinness behind the edge has a lot of benefits for southeast Asian cuisine in particular. Sugimoto steel is great and can take it.
 

Noodle Soup

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There are only bone cleavers and everything else cleavers to me. I don't have chopping and slicing cleavers for the same reason I don't have chopping and slicing gyuto. That sounds insane to me. Thin or middleweight, I'm using it for everything or it sucks and I share the same sentiment about any general Chef's knife.

Some are more suited to one than the other, but that doesn't eliminate the ability to do both. Having an extra 70g (so like a #6.7 if we want to be more accurate) and the same thinness behind the edge has a lot of benefits for southeast Asian cuisine in particular. Sugimoto steel is great and can take it.
My No. 7 wasn't up to small stuff like chicken bones when I received it. So I raised the edge bevel angles a little. OK now. I mostly use it for mincing raw meat and fish (think "laap") but it is also great for making stock from left over poultry bones. A thin, light blade doesn't do that well. As for a bone chopper, you need to define what kind of bone. For me it means chicken, waterfowl, large fish and maybe small pork bones like ribs. I don't chop up the large beef and pork type bones.
 

Nagakin

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My No. 7 wasn't up to small stuff like chicken bones when I received it. So I raised the edge bevel angles a little. OK now. I mostly use it for mincing raw meat and fish (think "laap") but it is also great for making stock from left over poultry bones. A thin, light blade doesn't do that well. As for a bone chopper, you need to define what kind of bone. For me it means chicken, waterfowl, large fish and maybe small pork bones like ribs. I don't chop up the large beef and pork type bones.
I would be happy using my 7 for all of the above, tbh. Chicken bones and similar are fine at home, but I'll use something else if dealing with cases or palettes. I really treat it like any another gyuto.

For bones I mean pork or like a large catfish spine, which I have my grandma's old "yard" cleaver for.
 

BillHanna

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There are a few smaller versions, the link I posted above shows the selection made by CCK for instance. Tho I'd probably say they might just not be for you, and a tall Nakiri would be better.

I'd personally probably want your Dao Vua to be taller if anything. The grip that I think is ideal for this kind of cleaver involves your index and middle fingers extended in a v-shape down the outside of the blade, with your thumb on the inside. This gives a level of control which you can't really get on less tall cleavers, because your fingers would extend over the edge. And which, kinda counter-intuitively, makes smaller cleavers less easy to use.

Did that make sense...?

EDIT - So actually you might be a cleaver guy, but just need a bigger one ;)
@coxhaus Here we go.
 

coxhaus

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I thought 2 Lions was a French thing? I the more lions you had means a better knife. Maybe Sabatier knives used this as I can't remember. It was a long time ago.
 

M1k3

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I thought 2 Lions was a French thing? I the more lions you had means a better knife. Maybe Sabatier knives used this as I can't remember. It was a long time ago.
What about Lions taxidermied in Sweden? 🤔
 

cotedupy

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These are a couple of WIP shots that might be of interest here...

Another member very generously gave me his Leung Tim Sangdao #2, because using acetone to remove the lacquer had left he 'KU' somewhat blothcy, and the profile and geometry needed touching up. And he knew I liked doing that kind of thing and was a big fan of the knife.

I started by roughly sanding the blade all over, up to 400, then started on forcing a patina. I did it with 3 x 2 hour soaks in a mix of vinegar and instant coffee granules, inspired by something @ian said. In between each stint I took the blade out and re-sanded it a bit at 400, before going back in the same vinegar coffee bath. My thinking here was to get a deeper, longer-lasting, final patina. I don't know if it actually makes a difference, but it strikes me like it might.

Unfortunately I didn't take any proper before pics but this is what it looked like after the first 2 hours and subsequent sanding, just before going back in:

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After the third dip I was pretty happy with the colour, and then sanded back a part toward the edge at 240. I did it a bit coarser to hopefully leave a bit of 'texture' to the appearance of the finish, as I was going for something suitably rustic-looking, rather than too shiny. It needs a bit of tidying up, but I'm really quite pleased with the effect here - I kinda want to do similar to all my others now. I'll post a pic of the finished knife once I've made the handle, but here it is now:

IMG-1952.jpg
 

JimMaple98

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Had a cleaver bonanza arrive this morning
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Takeda NAS “small” Chinese chef knife from Miura Knives, never held a knife this tall before. going to be plenty of testing today
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I also got these two cheap stainless ones of eBay, thinner than any of my CCK but I am yet to see how this steel preforms, will be updated. Choil shot is of the bigger one, 240mm x 100
 

Jville

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Had a cleaver bonanza arrive this morning
View attachment 135550View attachment 135551View attachment 135552
Takeda NAS “small” Chinese chef knife from Miura Knives, never held a knife this tall before. going to be plenty of testing today
View attachment 135553View attachment 135554
I also got these two cheap stainless ones of eBay, thinner than any of my CCK but I am yet to see how this steel preforms, will be updated. Choil shot is of the bigger one, 240mm x 100
Live Takeda cleavers. I got one small Classic and one large NAS. What brand are those other two? They look kind of like ccks.
 

JimMaple98

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JimMaple98

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Chan Kee Kitchen = CCK. Are your other CCKs the same model or different models.
My CCK knives are a 1903 and a 1102.
These two “Chan Zi Kee” have thinner grinds and they are thinner at the spine but the handles are miserable, the hight doesn’t change much between the models, unlike CCK. For less than $35 USD each they are pretty damn good.

they are certainly not CCK, seem to be contenders though
 

Jville

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My CCK knives are a 1903 and a 1102.
These two “Chan Zi Kee” have thinner grinds and they are thinner at the spine but the handles are miserable, the hight doesn’t change much between the models, unlike CCK. For less than $35 USD each they are pretty damn good.

they are certainly not CCK, seem to be contenders though
Oops, duh, my bad. It’s Chan Chi Kee= CCK, post your thoughts on these Chan Zi Kee, later. Especially for the price, look interesting.
 

demcav

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It was time to add a "bone crusher" cleaver. Previously, the heaviest cleaver I have is the Forum's Hattori FH-15 from 2008, along with other thinner Chinese-style slicers (Red Rock 52100 custom and CCK all-stainless KF1812).

This newest one is the CCK KF1602 carbon. It weighs in at 866g. Blade is 8.75" x 4". Spine is 8.65mm thick over the heel, 7.8mm mid-way down the spine, and 6.6mm over the tip. Edge profile has a fair amount of belly, and is 2.8mm thick at the heel and mid-way, then slightly tapers to 2.3mm at the tip.

I have yet to use, but hope to put it into action over the weekend.
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demcav

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Takeda NAS “small” Chinese chef knife from Miura Knives, never held a knife this tall before. going to be plenty of testing today
Please DO give an update after you've had some time with the Takeda! It's a beauty and I'd love to know how that grind works for food release; from the choil picture (!) it appears the grind may assist in releasing despite the thin, tall blade.

Congratulation!
 

kpham12

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Dropped by my old restaurant and sharpened their house knives, half a dozen cheap stainless no-brand Chinese vegetable cleavers. On my way out the door, my old boss pulls this neglected baby out from under a table and asks if I can fix it.
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The chips are actually a bit worse than they look in the picture and the edge is completely rounded and blunt and twisted/deformed everywhere else. I googled it and the knife is a Double Lion brand #1 cleaver and costs like $10, so not really worth fixing, but I eat for free here more often than I’d like to admit so I figured why not give it a shot. 😁

The work went by surprisingly fast, just under an hour on a 220 stone and a lot of elbow grease:
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Finished the edge on a Shapton Glass 500 and left it pretty thick and convex behind the edge because this baby will probably be doing battle with small pork bones/chicken carcasses in the near future.
 

Jville

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Please DO give an update after you've had some time with the Takeda! It's a beauty and I'd love to know how that grind works for food release; from the choil picture (!) it appears the grind may assist in releasing despite the thin, tall blade.

Congratulation!
I have two Takeda cleavers and yes you are right. The food release is “magical.”
 

demcav

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Live Takeda cleavers. I got one small Classic and one large NAS.
Besides the difference in overall size between the two, do you find they perform similarly? In the few pictures I've seen it appears that the stainless-clad (NAS) sometimes has more of a rounded belly than the iron-clad "classic" AS. Do you find that to be true in your two examples? Also, what about balance/comfort-in-hand between the two sizes -- do you have a preference?

Thanks -- curious minds want to know! :cool:
 

kpham12

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More updates on Suien VC. Stock profile blows. It has an impossible curve to it. And some mega sharp spine and choils. First step was to take care and round those out. Reprofile is done, now I’m flattening the bevels and putting in a asymmetrical edge. Probably got another hour or so of thinning and an hour of refinishing the polish. She ugly now but will be a beauty soonView attachment 103228View attachment 103229View attachment 103230
Did you ever finish this? Curious how it turned out.
 

JASinIL2006

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Add my name to the list of cleaver infatuees. I have been playing around with my new CCK1303, and while it still feels a bit awkward in my hand, compared to my J-knives, it is a blast to cut with! I cannot believe how thin this thing is. I keep finding myself looking for excuses to cut onions or carrots or ginger or celery...

Action sales had the best price I could find, but after placing my order, they said the 1303s were out of stock and they had no idea when they would get more, so I bought elsewhere. Considering how inexpensive these are, the performance is really amazing.

The only problem is that it's a lot harder to surreptitiously add another cleaver to the knife drawer...
 

Noodle Soup

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Dropped by my old restaurant and sharpened their house knives, half a dozen cheap stainless no-brand Chinese vegetable cleavers. On my way out the door, my old boss pulls this neglected baby out from under a table and asks if I can fix it.
View attachment 135710
View attachment 135711
The chips are actually a bit worse than they look in the picture and the edge is completely rounded and blunt and twisted/deformed everywhere else. I googled it and the knife is a Double Lion brand #1 cleaver and costs like $10, so not really worth fixing, but I eat for free here more often than I’d like to admit so I figured why not give it a shot. 😁

The work went by surprisingly fast, just under an hour on a 220 stone and a lot of elbow grease:
View attachment 135712
View attachment 135713
Finished the edge on a Shapton Glass 500 and left it pretty thick and convex behind the edge because this baby will probably be doing battle with small pork bones/chicken carcasses in the near future.
The nice thing about these cleavers is the wide blade gives plenty of room for repairs like yours.
 

kpham12

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The nice thing about these cleavers is the wide blade gives plenty of room for repairs like yours.
Yeah, the restaurant has a couple house cleavers that started life as full sized slicers and after years of heavy use, honing and sharpening that would reduce a regular chef’s knife to a little sliver, they are now just entering the nakiri sized phase of their life.
 
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