Best benchmark or reference classic 240 mm wa-gyuto knife?

[ian]

Add these responses up and that's my answer You're fortunate to have RazorSharp in your backyard, and I think there's a lot of value in going and handling a fair amount of knives to see what's up and where your preferences are. I don't have that luxury because there's not a store like that in my backyard.

You ever go to northwestern cutlery? I went there once 12 yrs ago, but don’t remember anything about it.

 

[McMan]

You ever go to northwestern cutlery? I went there once 12 yrs ago, but don’t remember anything about it.

Used to go a lot, but haven't been for a decade. Good for the basics.

 

[Cliff]

Sorry, what's a 249 gyuto?

Yep, just a typo. The KS is definitely over-priced, used to be super sought after. But I think it's a classic profile with a laser-like front third and a stiffer heel than true lasers. The 240-version is oversized, more like 250.

 

[RockyBasel]

Add these responses up and that's my answer You're fortunate to have RazorSharp in your backyard, and I think there's a lot of value in going and handling a fair amount of knives to see what's up and where your preferences are. I don't have that luxury because there's not a store like that in my backyard.

yes, and razor sharp, they have Y. Tanaka knives in both Mogaki and KU finish - he is another great craftsman you could try. I almost ordered one, and still may. But I think I got distracted by a Togashi-Tosa Blue purchase. This reminds me, I need to get that Y. Tanaka. There is also a Shigeki Tanaka, but I am talking about Yoshikazu Tanaka. JNS stones carry Y. Tanaka as well. Know your Tanaka’s is the main takeaway here

 

[tincent]

These threads remind me of customers asking for recommendations, not liking your recommendations, and then rewording their question. Usually with more words.

 

[chiffonodd]

Classic all around food destroyers, in my opinion, are the sanjo style knives mentioned here (gengetsu, yoshikane, wakui, kashima sanjo, etc.). They do everything right because they have some meat on the spine (~3.5mm) but are still ground very thin in terms of tapering down to the edge and longitudinally to the tip. Consequently, they have just enough weight to ease cutting tasks while also being extremely smooth cutters thanks to how thin they are behind the edge. The very thin tip is also excellent for cutting onion and shallot. They also are very good in the profile department with a nice flat spot for push cutting and a relatively pointy tip for detail work. The convex grind also provides decent food release without wedging. I also personally like the height for a 240 at about 48mm and the length not being oversized. Others like more height and length and might therefore go for a kono YS or equivalent if you can find one without all the cosmetics.

In other words, they are excellent all around midweights and although other knives may excell in specific aspects (e.g., certain wide bevel knives may have better food release, lasers like the kono HD or ashi ginga may be true onion and herb destroyers, and heavier knives like toyama with beefier grinds may have easier plow-through of certain ingredients), it's really difficult to think of a knife that is as good of a benchmark, all around reference point as the gengetsu etc. I think that this style is basically the perfect all-around gyuto.

But as always, YMMV

 

[Barmoley]

Let's use car analogy, since we all know these work for every situation.

What would you recommend as a good benchmark or reference classic car?

Now, does this question make any sense? I know a bunch of you will start shouting out your favorites, but can you really compare let's say a Lotus Elise to Ford f150? Can you say that one is better than the other or that one is a benchmark for all cars? OP has been asking many questions and he received many excellent answers, he continues to not listen to what anyone is suggesting. This makes me think that he is basically trolling, so just stop feeding the troll. By all means if you guys are enjoying these discussions go on, but just recognize that the OP is not looking for an answer. I am very much for helping new members, but at some point the person asking for help needs to actually be willing to listen.

 

[Jeezuinn]

They're closed on Sundays and were closed until recently because the city was shut down.

Razor sharp is actually open apart from Sundays,was there twice in past 2 months to get stuffs. People there are very open to letting you try the knife. You will have your questions answered faster after actually handling them because ideal size, weight, profile, comfort and all really differs from person to person

 

[dafox]

Gesshin Gengetsu. Excellent tradeoff between thinness and food release in a middleweight knife. A bit of a yardstick knife for me. Flattish profile. A bit of taper. The SS version has very nice steel. I assume the white2 version does as well. Only minor downside is that spine and choil need a bit more easing.

This!

 

[NO ChoP!]

There's probably a benchmark in every style.
Western: Misono Dragon
Laser: HD
Icon: KS or even Mizuno
Sanjo style: Mazaki
Takefu style: Kanehiro AS
Tosa KU style: Zakuri
Off the shelf: Mac
Bang for buck: Tanaka

 

[juice]

They're closed on Sundays and were closed until recently because the city was shut down.

So they're open today? Go there today, and have a play.

 

[DHunter86]

I already suggested the OP visit Razorsharp in Singapore and play with some actual knives, but it got no traction...

I'd second this, Jo and David are really helpful, and they do carry quite a huge variety. And as mentioned, they never really closed during the past 2 months, I was in and out to pick up some sharpening essentials.

Also, I remember you posting that you received a very decent set of Mutsumi Hinoura's OEM knives, maybe start with those and see how they work out for you...

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/help-identifying-these-smaller-white-steel-knives.48147/

 

[M1k3]

So they're open today? Go there today, and have a play.

My good [insert preferred pronoun], what level Bard are you?

 

[Jeezuinn]

Also, I remember you posting that you received a very decent set of Mutsumi Hinoura's OEM knives, maybe start with those and see how they work out for you...

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/help-identifying-these-smaller-white-steel-knives.48147/

Agree with this. You are lucky since you do not have to buy a knife for now. Use the Hinoura,and if you like it then all is good. If you don't like it,you will be able to tell what you dislike about it,and there you have your answer to what sets the benchmark for you

 

[juice]

My good [insert preferred pronoun], what level Bard are you?

That's what I say. Hey hey hey.

 

[simar]

Are you are looking for a story about why something is going to be a good benchmark for you compare to the rest of your experiences?

You could chase after some elusive knife like a Konosuke Fujiyama Togo Reigo and set that up as your benchmark. Its going to have refinement in its look and feel and the fit and finish should meet or exceed expectations. Its not the best for every use but its good enough for most folks.

The story behind this knife has been wonderfully writen and published by @Omega Konosuke Fujiyama; A History

alternatively you could stop chasing the grails and find something that excites you enough to use it.

 

[M1k3]

To quote a great KKF philosopher:

But I won't know unless I get to try one, arghhhhh

 

[lemeneid]

IF budget is of no issue, try any of these knives. Tried/owned them all and would happily have any of these in my knife drawer. All great lookers and top performers with a range of lasers to workhorses

Teruyasu Fujiwara Denka
Watanabe/Toyama Honyaki
Tsukasa River Jump
Konosuke Fujiyama Damascus B#1/AS
Ashi Honyaki
Kato Kurouchi

Otherwise, just hit up Razorsharp.

 

[josemartinlopez]

Thanks, this looks like a great list to start with.

By the way, why do you specifically recommend honyakis? I thought being honyaki had little to do with how the knife cuts?

 

[RockyBasel]

I thi

Classic all around food destroyers, in my opinion, are the sanjo style knives mentioned here (gengetsu, yoshikane, wakui, kashima sanjo, etc.). They do everything right because they have some meat on the spine (~3.5mm) but are still ground very thin in terms of tapering down to the edge and longitudinally to the tip. Consequently, they have just enough weight to ease cutting tasks while also being extremely smooth cutters thanks to how thin they are behind the edge. The very thin tip is also excellent for cutting onion and shallot. They also are very good in the profile department with a nice flat spot for push cutting and a relatively pointy tip for detail work. The convex grind also provides decent food release without wedging. I also personally like the height for a 240 at about 48mm and the length not being oversized. Others like more height and length and might therefore go for a kono YS or equivalent if you can find one without all the cosmetics.

In other words, they are excellent all around midweights and although other knives may excell in specific aspects (e.g., certain wide bevel knives may have better food release, lasers like the kono HD or ashi ginga may be true onion and herb destroyers, and heavier knives like toyama with beefier grinds may have easier plow-through of certain ingredients), it's really difficult to think of a knife that is as good of a benchmark, all around reference point as the gengetsu etc. I think that this style is basically the perfect all-around gyuto.

But as always, YMMV

I think you have nailed it. I cannot add to this other than say Boom!

 

[valgard]

Sanjo style: Mazaki

Hell no! Yoshikane, Wakui, Hinoura, whatever, but something with consistent quality

 

[valgard]

I think you should buy a Kato western Damascus gyuto or a Yo Shigefusa Kitaeji gyuto.

For a Sakai knife go for a Tatsuo Ikeda honyaki gyuto.

 

[BillHanna]

Honoura,

For the purposes of the thread; would father and son be relatively equal?

 

[valgard]

For the purposes of the thread; would father and son be relatively equal?

If being serious, I'd go with the son, cheap for the quality and easy to find. It's the same workshop and the father only seems to work on some of the high end stuff and outdoor knives.

 

[RockyBasel]

I think you should buy a Kato western Damascus gyuto or a Yo Shigefusa Kitaeji gyuto.

For a Sakai knife go for a Tatsuo Ikeda honyaki gyuto.

let me know where to buy these knives and I will buy them! These are the elusive unicorns and priced accordingly! Seriously, if you have a source, let me know

 

[simar]

I totally forgot about going the honyaki route, if price is no object then why not. Several options out there heck you could even try to commission some of the sword makers to make you a custom blade if you can afford it.

 

[juice]

you could even try to commission some of the sword makers to make you a custom blade if you can afford it.

I don't think this is the best option out there - you have to know what you want for that to work.

 

[RockyBasel]

I don't think this is the best option out there - you have to know what you want for that to work.

and sometimes they take many months, or don’t respond if they are busy. Watanabe however does and can make you a great knife - easy to choose from his website - and it arrives within 2- 3 weeks. Perhaps he may not be a sword smith, but he makes good knives

 

[ma_sha1]

Toyanabe, the benchmark of benchmarks.

 

[ian]

If price is no object, you should go buy a 200 ft yacht, hire a KKF member as a cook, and just chill the f out.