Best blacksmiths for blue #2 heavy workhorses

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Cliff

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The Kaiju blue 1 is spectacular. Absolutely perfect fit and finish - the Kasumi and polished edge is a marvel. So aesthetically incredible. Cutting performance isn’t up there with the best. Thicker and heavier than the Kono FM blue 1. Different animal -‘higher spine as well

it’s too refined and gorgeous to be called a WH - even though at 227 gm, it falls around the weight category of WH

it’s wonderful and rare, so I use it less, while the Toyama, I use every chance i get
Thanks for this. At 227 gm, it's roughly comparable to recent vintages of Watanabe and Toyama. If it's an ebony handle, that might skew things a bit as well.
 

deskjockey

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How does the Gihei Blue #2 Gyuto fit into the mix or workhorse knives? Or put another way, if you had $200~$250USD for a workhorse, what would you get and why.

I get the knives mainly being talked about are probably a good step up in overall quality but, $400+USD knives are out of reach for many people.
 

RockyBasel

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If you can spend $40 more, and have 4 months of Patience, I would consider Heiji - I love the semi-stainless but the carbon Heiji is fantastic as well, but quite reactive

it’s a world class knife
 

deskjockey

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If you can spend $40 more, and have 4 months of Patience, I would consider Heiji - I love the semi-stainless but the carbon Heiji is fantastic as well, but quite reactive

it’s a world class knife
What does Heiji give me the Gihei doesn't?

How would you compare the semi-stainless (assume it is a D2 variant) versus his carbon (assume it is blue #2)? Do I give up anything meaningful by going Semi-Stainless? I'm assuming the Blue #2 will deal with impact stress better but, also realize grind profile and edge geometry matter most. So, do both have the same edge geometry and overall grind profile?

I'm not in a professional kitchen where ultimate edge-holding matters most. Chipping or rolling an edge is the most likely place of concern other than rust resistance (I don't want super reactive but, I also don't need SU-405 clad VG-10 either 😃).

I want/need something for hard Sweet Potatoes, really cold Carrots, and similar kitchen hazards to my IKAZUCHI 240MM.

I'm thinking either a 210mm or a 240mm Gyuto. What are the popular options, if any, with these knives? So, is a 210mm Gyuto ~$240 and 240mm ~$290? Would a 270mm Gyuto be too heavy to be practical in a home kitchen against large hard squash?

TIA,
Sid
 

daniel_il

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How does the Gihei Blue #2 Gyuto fit into the mix or workhorse knives? Or put another way, if you had $200~$250USD for a workhorse, what would you get and why.

I get the knives mainly being talked about are probably a good step up in overall quality but, $400+USD knives are out of reach for many people.
i got gihei 210 & watanabe 240 and toyama petty.

The gihei is a very robust knife with good steel and f&f. Nice nashiji and basic but good quality magnolia handle. They are bit shorter and flatter than the watanabe.

my 240 watanabe have a very nice upgraded handle but the basic ho wood is terrible (base on my toyama petty). The steel is exceptionally good and hard and i love the balance point. This have a thinner edge compare to gihei.

I don’t think the gihei will disappoint you as a workhorse.
 

daveb

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For the best carbon workhorse, lose the blue requirement and line up for a Marko.... 😘
 

kpham12

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What does Heiji give me the Gihei doesn't?

How would you compare the semi-stainless (assume it is a D2 variant) versus his carbon (assume it is blue #2)? Do I give up anything meaningful by going Semi-Stainless? I'm assuming the Blue #2 will deal with impact stress better but, also realize grind profile and edge geometry matter most. So, do both have the same edge geometry and overall grind profile?

I'm not in a professional kitchen where ultimate edge-holding matters most. Chipping or rolling an edge is the most likely place of concern other than rust resistance (I don't want super reactive but, I also don't need SU-405 clad VG-10 either 😃).

I want/need something for hard Sweet Potatoes, really cold Carrots, and similar kitchen hazards to my IKAZUCHI 240MM.

I'm thinking either a 210mm or a 240mm Gyuto. What are the popular options, if any, with these knives? So, is a 210mm Gyuto ~$240 and 240mm ~$290? Would a 270mm Gyuto be too heavy to be practical in a home kitchen against large hard squash?

TIA,
Sid
Both Heiji and Gihei are nice workhorses, but are both very similar wide bevel grinds with hard shoulders. The Gihei will have a bigger flat spot and usually a lower tip. Heiji profiles can vary a little depending on what you ask for, but usually, they look a bit like a sword. Both the semistainless from Heiji and blue 2 from Gihei are nice to sharpen and have great edge retention, especially for home use. The semi stainless has a reputation for being a little brittle, not a problem if you don’t abuse it.

What does Heiji give you that Gihei doesn’t?

In my opinion, Heijis look a little nicer while Gihei has that sandblasted finish on the wide bevel that goes above the bevel and looks a little “meh”, although you can probably fix this with some sandpaper or something. Aesthetics aside, both have similar grinds, are in a similar weight range and it’s all up to personal preference. Although Gihei is readily available while Heiji requires direct order and a roughly 4 month wait.

The main thing is you seem to be looking for a heavier workhorse knife that will cut sweet potatoes, big carrots, squash and other similar hard dense foods like an Ikazuchi. In this case, both the Heiji and Gihei are pretty much the opposite of what you want. The Heiji is beloved by many on this forum, myself included, but they are well known to not be optimal performers on hard dense foods and the Gihei falls in a similar vein. They will wedge and require a lot more force than a laser like the Ikazuchi.

Of the knives discussed in this thread, a Watanabe or Toyama stainless seems to fit your needs very well. A blue 2 knife with some nice weight to it that will cut dense foods pretty effortlessly. But they will run you a little over $400. If you’re looking for a knife with some workhorse weight that will deal with dense foods like a laser, maybe start a recommendation thread, because they can be hard to find in the $200-250 range.
 

ModRQC

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No one answered the "Is Wakui B#2 good/workhorse/whatever what?"

So after pouting for a while, decided to leave the routine story. The illness story.

Once upon a time, a KKF member promised himself not to buy iron clads anymore. He broke that promise since... twice.

Not so long after, the same KKF member decided he wanted a good, real good, petty. But it seems either ideal does not exist, or exists at prohibitive prices.

See this PERFECT example:


That's a weapon of ignobly petty mass destruction. Ignoble because the price is just "Hell with it man I can buy a rather high end 240mm Gyuto for the money". But where money would be no object, that knife would be in that KKF member's arsenal. But he still ain't got a real good petty despite buying a few knives. He DID buy those iron clads he wasn't supposed to buy anymore, though.

If not that, that member wanted to invest on some stones. A replacement Cerax 320 and Ouka, SG4K, SP120 & 220, Morihei 6K, JNS 300 and 800, a coarse Nanohone, the "real" King 4K, King 8K Gold, possibly some cheap coarse green SiC stone to see how it compares with Sigma... or if that, an expensive Debado for the same reasons. And he did buy the Pink Brick out of a deal, but none the others yet.

And tonight, he decided to grab a third iron clad with Ai & Om Wakui B#2... GYUTO! Just because NO ONE ANSWERED HERE. And he still doesn't have a petty!

And while there, he did decide to grab the Nanohone 200. One never has too much coarse stones. Unless you have more coarse stones than knives. This narrator here thinks it's good long term policy to own one coarse stone for every knife in someone's collection. It makes up for all the ****** knives f&f will bring you, gives you experience with different stuff, and vanishes pretty fast anyhow. So for sure, narrator agrees with here concerned KKF member, even if that Nanohone is most probably too expensive for what it is. :rolleyes: Stupid, stupid KKF member, but narrator gets the gist and doesn't judge.

And in guise of morale, narrator here asks what the **** is wrong with that guy?

Narrator wants to accuse any other KKF member that did not answered the question of having pushed our (z)(h)ero KKF member into indiscriminating purchases. But in the end, he knows the guy is a lost cause anyhow.

Narrator is a cunning arse. He sure does want to see that poor guy's usual review about knives he unwittingly buys out of kicks... breaking his promise for a third time!

Plus a replacement folder for the one he lost. Which was probably the only one out of three items he really needed.

"Ahem... good effort...?" 🤷‍♂️
 
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deskjockey

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Both Heiji and Gihei are nice workhorses, but are both very similar wide bevel grinds with hard shoulders. The Gihei will have a bigger flat spot and usually a lower tip. Heiji profiles can vary a little depending on what you ask for, but usually, they look a bit like a sword. Both the semistainless from Heiji and blue 2 from Gihei are nice to sharpen and have great edge retention, especially for home use. The semi stainless has a reputation for being a little brittle, not a problem if you don’t abuse it.

What does Heiji give you that Gihei doesn’t?

In my opinion, Heijis look a little nicer while Gihei has that sandblasted finish on the wide bevel that goes above the bevel and looks a little “meh”, although you can probably fix this with some sandpaper or something. Aesthetics aside, both have similar grinds, are in a similar weight range and it’s all up to personal preference. Although Gihei is readily available while Heiji requires direct order and a roughly 4 month wait.

The main thing is you seem to be looking for a heavier workhorse knife that will cut sweet potatoes, big carrots, squash and other similar hard dense foods like an Ikazuchi. In this case, both the Heiji and Gihei are pretty much the opposite of what you want. The Heiji is beloved by many on this forum, myself included, but they are well known to not be optimal performers on hard dense foods and the Gihei falls in a similar vein. They will wedge and require a lot more force than a laser like the Ikazuchi.

Of the knives discussed in this thread, a Watanabe or Toyama stainless seems to fit your needs very well. A blue 2 knife with some nice weight to it that will cut dense foods pretty effortlessly. But they will run you a little over $400. If you’re looking for a knife with some workhorse weight that will deal with dense foods like a laser, maybe start a recommendation thread, because they can be hard to find in the $200-250 range.
I was thinking a workhorse Gyuto, not a Yo-Deba or similar double-sided knife, would cut versus split a hard squash or similar.

A thin lightweight laser of a knife seems counter-intuitive to me as I would think the edge could be damaged and a lot of force on the thin profile would be likely to cause other problems.

That being said, I have gotten tired of a German Chef's knife smashing hard veg and cracking it on occasion. I really want to cut hard veg and not pound it with a clubby wedge.
 

M1k3

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If someone is looking for a knife for dense foods, doesn't have a huge budget, can use a yo/western handle and doesn't need bigger than 210mm, I'd grab a Takamura Chromax and and cut straight up and down.

Or some other thin and not completely flat ground knife.
 
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ModRQC

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If someone is looking for a knife for dense foods, doesn't have a huge budget, can use a yo/western handle and doesn't need bigger than 210mm, I'd grab a Takamura Chromax and and cut straight up and down.
I bow to your skills if you CAN cut straight up AND down. :letseat:

#fastmotherfooker #dirtyprokitchentricks #stillleavetheknifeouttheM1k3rowave
 

daniel_il

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No one answered the "Is Wakui B#2 good/workhorse/whatever what?"

So after pouting for a while, decided to leave the routine story. The illness story.

Once upon a time, a KKF member promised himself not to buy iron clads anymore. He broke that promise since... twice.

Not so long after, the same KKF member decided he wanted a good, real good, petty. But it seems either ideal does not exist, or exists at prohibitive prices.

See this PERFECT example:


That's a weapon of ignobly petty mass destruction. Ignoble because the price is just "Hell with it man I can buy a rather high end 240mm Gyuto for the money". But where money would be no object, that knife would be in that KKF member's arsenal. But he still ain't got a real good petty despite buying a few knives. He DID buy those iron clads he wasn't supposed to buy anymore, though.

If not that, that member wanted to invest on some stones. A replacement Cerax 320 and Ouka, SG4K, SP120 & 220, Morihei 6K, JNS 300 and 800, a coarse Nanohone, the "real" King 4K, King 8K Gold, possibly some cheap coarse green SiC stone to see how it compares with Sigma... or if that, an expensive Debado for the same reasons. And he did buy the Pink Brick out of a deal, but none the others yet.

And tonight, he decided to grab a third iron clad with Ai & Om Wakui B#2. Just because NO ONE ANSWERED HERE.

And while there, he did decide to grab the Nanohone 200. One never has too much coarse stones. Unless you have more coarse stones than knives. This narrator here thinks it's good long term policy to own one coarse stone for every knife in someone's collection. It makes up for all the ****** knives f&f will bring you, gives you experience with different stuff, and vanishes pretty fast anyhow. So for sure, narrator agrees with here concerned KKF member, even if that Nanohone is most probably too expensive for what it is. :rolleyes: Stupid, stupid KKF member, but narrator gets the gist and doesn't judge.

And in guise of morale, narrator here asks what the **** is wrong with that guy?

Narrator wants to accuse any other KKF member that did not answered the question of having pushed our (z)(h)ero KKF member into indiscriminating purchases. But in the end, he knows the guy is a lost cause anyhow.

Narrator is a cunning arse. He sure does want to see that poor guy's usual review about knives he unwittingly buys out of kicks... breaking his promise for a third time!

Plus a replacement folder for the one he lost. Which was probably the only one out of three items he really needed.

"Ahem... good effort...?" 🤷‍♂️
i have a rule for not buying iron clad after my last mazaki.

So i will wait for that petty review 🙊
 

ModRQC

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i have a rule for not buying iron clad after my last mazaki.

So i will wait for that petty review 🙊
You’re evil.

Edit: and while it will be a petty review - like I’m going to be an ******* to Wakui - it’s still the Gyuto I purchased.

Ahem… the KKF member purchased. And will review. I’m the buyer… shite… narrator.
 

daniel_il

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I was thinking a workhorse Gyuto, not a Yo-Deba or similar double-sided knife, would cut versus split a hard squash or similar.

A thin lightweight laser of a knife seems counter-intuitive to me as I would think the edge could be damaged and a lot of force on the thin profile would be likely to cause other problems.

That being said, I have gotten tired of a German Chef's knife smashing hard veg and cracking it on occasion. I really want to cut hard veg and not pound it with a clubby wedge.
my gihei doesn’t wedge too badly. The toyama is thin almost as my s.tanaka ginsan or HD2.

clearly the gihei is a very beefy knife but the steel takes a great edge, unlike german stainless..
 

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M1k3

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I bow to your skills if you CAN cut straight up AND down. :letseat:

#fastmotherfooker #dirtyprokitchentricks #stillleavetheknifeouttheM1k3rowave
I'm amazed by those that manage to twist a knife enough while cutting to chip it.

#🤦‍♂️ #yUtwist
 

ModRQC

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I'm amazed by those that manage to twist a knife enough while cutting to chip it.

#🤦‍♂️ #yUtwist
Doesn’t happen to me, but I’m still bowing to one that CAN cut straight down AND up.

That’s 180* twisting as you go. Wicked. 😉🙃😊
 

ModRQC

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rules are made to be broken:)

until you post this, didn’t intended to break my “too expensive for a petty rule”

now I’m starting doing my research on it🤦🏻‍♂️
Take the Myojin... PLEASE.

I updated that reply and now the first post. Not a petty... but please break your bank on a good one and report!
 

daniel_il

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Take the Myojin... PLEASE.

I updated that reply and now the first post. Not a petty... but please break your bank on a good one and report!
tojiro dp is the best i ever needed 😝

I bought the toyama petty last month..not sure if it’s costly enough for a review
 

ModRQC

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It's perfect review stuff on the contrary. It's in my top 5.
 

deskjockey

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my gihei doesn’t wedge too badly. The toyama is thin almost as my s.tanaka ginsan or HD2.

clearly the gihei is a very beefy knife but the steel takes a great edge, unlike german stainless..
Sounds like it or the Heiji would be a good option for me with that comment. The Gyuto should have a shallower profile and be less wedgy which is what I am looking for. Plus I like the lower tip of a Gyuto or French Chef's knife.

My current Chef's knife is pretty wide behind the edge which is the main problem I think I'm seeing with splitting my hard vegtables.
 

Infrared

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I was thinking a workhorse Gyuto, not a Yo-Deba or similar double-sided knife, would cut versus split a hard squash or similar.

A thin lightweight laser of a knife seems counter-intuitive to me as I would think the edge could be damaged and a lot of force on the thin profile would be likely to cause other problems.

That being said, I have gotten tired of a German Chef's knife smashing hard veg and cracking it on occasion. I really want to cut hard veg and not pound it with a clubby wedge.
Have you considered a nakiri like this one?


They are perfect for tall and dense products.
 

deskjockey

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Have you considered a nakiri like this one?


They are perfect for tall and dense products.
I have a 165mm Nakiri in Aus-8 I think. It is too thin and light for hard vegetables. Heck, it is a pain to use on those skinny carrots straight from the fridge.
 

Infrared

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I have a 165mm Nakiri in Aus-8 I think. It is too thin and light for hard vegetables. Heck, it is a pain to use on those skinny carrots straight from the fridge.
A knife generally needs to be thin to be able to cut dense products (like carrots) without wedging. That is why your German Chef's knives struggle.

That being said, the nakiri I linked is heavier than most 240mm gyutos. It should be plenty durable.
 
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