Best blacksmiths for blue #2 heavy workhorses

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kpham12

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I was thinking a workhorse Gyuto, not a Yo-Deba or similar double-sided knife, would cut versus split a hard squash or similar.

A thin lightweight laser of a knife seems counter-intuitive to me as I would think the edge could be damaged and a lot of force on the thin profile would be likely to cause other problems.

That being said, I have gotten tired of a German Chef's knife smashing hard veg and cracking it on occasion. I really want to cut hard veg and not pound it with a clubby wedge.
Who said anything about a yo-deba?

Thin knives work very well on hard, dense product as long as you don’t twist or torque the knife, avoid any hard roots/stems, etc.

You mentioned wanting a workhorse that can cut carrots, sweet potato, squash, etc without wedging. More “workhorse” type gyutos I can think of off the top of my head that can cut dense foods well tend to be $300+ though and you mentioned you were looking for something in the $200-250 range. You can consider a middleweight like a Shigeki Tanaka or a maybe a well priced Yoshikane that has a bit of a stiffer spine and a little more weight than a laser like the Ikazuchi, but will still cut dense foods well.

All I’m saying is don’t buy a Heiji or Gihei and expect them to be drastically less wedgy or to crack less in tall, hard food than a German chefs knife.
 

ModRQC

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Indeed... Thought you might like it but you didn't. What can I say...?

Except I do not chip thin knives. I got one Tak from BST that came to me chipped though. Listed that way, no harsh feelings. Nothing SG500 wouldn't handle in a couple swipes I believe but it still cut well and I sold it that way - openly still. Mostly chopping and pull cutting with that one. Didn't chip it further on the existing chips or elsewhere. Guessing chips didn't came from use, but kitchen sink most likely culprit. They had that impact area closeness to them - proving nothing but giving me a feeling.
 

ModRQC

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I’ve watched the queen’s gambit

edit: RSK and cutting edge have the myojin for a better price ;)
At first glance they would, but add CAD exchange, shipping, customs and Tosho isn't so off.

But in my book, that's like twice too expensive anyhow. 200-250$ CAD is my spending limit on a less than 180mm and 40mm high blade. Just not worth it for my use.

Just not worth it anyhow so I HAVE to set a limit.

Edit: was all set to buy that Mutsumi AS 135mm petty with A&O when I stumbled on the Wakui... :p


Someone SHOULD grab that Hinoura too!
 

Hz_zzzzzz

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I was thinking a workhorse Gyuto, not a Yo-Deba or similar double-sided knife, would cut versus split a hard squash or similar.

A thin lightweight laser of a knife seems counter-intuitive to me as I would think the edge could be damaged and a lot of force on the thin profile would be likely to cause other problems.

That being said, I have gotten tired of a German Chef's knife smashing hard veg and cracking it on occasion. I really want to cut hard veg and not pound it with a clubby wedge.
Have you ever considered something like a CCK 1303? It's 250-270 gram so not too light, and it's thin enough for dense hard veg.
 

daniel_il

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How about a Sugimoto CM-4030? That makes me wonder about that cleaver.
i think it will be easier to decide first about the knife shape.

for me, i like gyuto best and a Chinese cleaver as second option. for about 200-250usd range i would go for s. tanaka nashiji ginsan(also available with blue 2#), it think its the most balanced knife it terms of geometry, thinness, steel, height and price. in this range there are many nice knives. matsubara blue 2# is also a nice knife but very tall, kanehiro line is nice but fairly thin and light. gihei is nice but extreme workhorse so you might considers something less hefty.
 

daniel_il

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At first glance they would, but add CAD exchange, shipping, customs and Tosho isn't so off.

But in my book, that's like twice too expensive anyhow. 200-250$ CAD is my spending limit on a less than 180mm and 40mm high blade. Just not worth it for my use.

Just not worth it anyhow so I HAVE to set a limit.

Edit: was all set to buy that Mutsumi AS 135mm petty with A&O when I stumbled on the Wakui... :p


Someone SHOULD grab that Hinoura too!
yeah i forgot about this extra costs for Canada residents

I'm thinking of going next with Mutsumi AS 240 gyuto and ashi 180 petty 🤔
 

deskjockey

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Workhorse that can cut dense foods with ease?

Yoshikane
Gengetsu
I have looked at both of those over the years. I'm not sure why but, I have always been attracted to the Gengetsu however, the Yoshikane is one I have actually come close to buying more than once. The Yoshikane options are certainly more budget-friendly and carry high praise from many around this forum too.

While I like the polished sides of something like the Gengetsu, today I have a soft spot for attractive hammer dimples like I see in various places on the Yoshikane knives. 😀
 

deskjockey

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In terms of the overall blade profile, I have mixed feelings regarding the Nakiri overall along with Chinese cleavers. I'm pretty strongly inclined to stick with a Gyuto. Like a Santoku, they seem more versatile and I have a hard time seeing a large Nakiri getting a lot of use, being essentially a unitasker in my kitchen. In a home kitchen, a Gyuto and/or a Santoku is hard to beat IMHO.
 

applepieforbreakfast

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I was thinking a workhorse Gyuto, not a Yo-Deba or similar double-sided knife, would cut versus split a hard squash or similar.

A thin lightweight laser of a knife seems counter-intuitive to me as I would think the edge could be damaged and a lot of force on the thin profile would be likely to cause other problems.

That being said, I have gotten tired of a German Chef's knife smashing hard veg and cracking it on occasion. I really want to cut hard veg and not pound it with a clubby wedge.
I have a Gihei Blue 240.

I don't use it for squash or sweet potatoes, I use a laser instead.

It's easier.
 

captaincaed

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In terms of the overall blade profile, I have mixed feelings regarding the Nakiri overall along with Chinese cleavers. I'm pretty strongly inclined to stick with a Gyuto. Like a Santoku, they seem more versatile and I have a hard time seeing a large Nakiri getting a lot of use, being essentially a unitasker in my kitchen. In a home kitchen, a Gyuto and/or a Santoku is hard to beat IMHO.
Square knives are for squares. Go with Gyuto, 2021.
 

OkLobster

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This is somewhat contradictory in nature but what would fit the mold of a workhorse able to cut through dense foods with ease whilst having top quality F&F? The Kaiju sort of comes to mind to me as a novice albeit those are unicorns.
 

deskjockey

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This is somewhat contradictory in nature but what would fit the mold of a workhorse able to cut through dense foods with ease whilst having top quality F&F? The Kaiju sort of comes to mind to me as a novice albeit those are unicorns.
Certainly a novice in this regard but, the issue with my German Chef's knife is that it gets too thick too fast to cut all the way through something like a large cold carrot. A knife with a wide bevel would reach deeper into the carrot to cut before the thickness of the blade started wedging it apart.

This suggests a really thin blade is best but, a "workhorse" blade that was thin or tapered or convexed would approximate this thinness deep enough to cut through a hard food item in your kitchen.

There aren't any absolutes to me but, lots of subjectives like how hard or firm is the item being cut, how tall or thick the item being cut is, then there is blade height and spine thickness with the overall grind profile, ...
 

Hz_zzzzzz

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Certainly a novice in this regard but, the issue with my German Chef's knife is that it gets too thick too fast to cut all the way through something like a large cold carrot. A knife with a wide bevel would reach deeper into the carrot to cut before the thickness of the blade started wedging it apart.

This suggests a really thin blade is best but, a "workhorse" blade that was thin or tapered or convexed would approximate this thinness deep enough to cut through a hard food item in your kitchen.

There aren't any absolutes to me but, lots of subjectives like how hard or firm is the item being cut, how tall or thick the item being cut is, then there is blade height and spine thickness with the overall grind profile, ...
I just grabbed 2 6-cm tall carrots from my refrigerator and made these 2 videos for you. It tells you why I think Yoshikane and Toyama are my best cutters.

First one shows Takamura Chromax, Yoshikane SKD k-tip, Toyama dammy and Kato workhorse k-tip. These 4 are all some of my better carrot cutters.

The second one shows Takamura Chromax and Yoshikane SKD. I've been saying that Yoshikane is the ultimate version of lasers. Simply because it cuts more laserishly than all the traditional lasers I've tried including Takamura SG2/Chromax, Shibata AS/R2, Konosuke HD2/GS+, and Ikkanshi Tadatuna. And Yoshikane has more meat near the handle for better balance, more comfortable pinch grip and a bit more stiffness and more weight to help cutting.
 
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kpham12

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I just grabbed 2 6-cm tall carrots from my refrigerator and made these 2 videos for you. It tells you why I think Yoshikane and Toyama are my best cutters.

First one shows Takamura Chromax, Yoshikane SKD k-tip, Toyama dammy and Kato workhorse k-tip. These 4 are all some of my better carrot cutters.

The second one shows Takamura Chromax and Yoshikane SKD.
Whoo, the Damascus Toyama looks so nice.


P.S.
Please save some burnt chestnut handles for the rest of us. 😓
 

daniel_il

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I just grabbed 2 6-cm tall carrots from my refrigerator and made these 2 videos for you. It tells you why I think Yoshikane and Toyama are my best cutters.

First one shows Takamura Chromax, Yoshikane SKD k-tip, Toyama dammy and Kato workhorse k-tip. These 4 are all some of my better carrot cutters.

The second one shows Takamura Chromax and Yoshikane SKD.
evil carrots o_O

western handle is takamura chromax?

agree about the yoshi being the best pure cutter, its also very flat and medium height(might be a pro\con). mine is the skd nashiji version which is thinner.

i can do a video if I can find carrots
 

Hz_zzzzzz

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evil carrots o_O

western handle is takamura chromax?

agree about the yoshi being the best pure cutter, its also very flat and medium height(might be a pro\con). mine is the skd nashiji version which is thinner.

i can do a video if I can find carrots
Yes the western handle is tamakura chromax. The K-tip Yoshis are surprisingly tall. My 210 K-tip Yoshi is 51 cm tall. A 240 k-tip could be taller I guess but I don't know for sure. (55mm tall Yoshi https://www.thesharpcook.com/product/yoshikane-skd-nashiji-kiritsuke-240mm/) The front part of the Yoshi is just such a silent cutter.
 
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tostadas

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I just grabbed 2 6-cm tall carrots from my refrigerator and made these 2 videos for you. It tells you why I think Yoshikane and Toyama are my best cutters.

First one shows Takamura Chromax, Yoshikane SKD k-tip, Toyama dammy and Kato workhorse k-tip. These 4 are all some of my better carrot cutters.

The second one shows Takamura Chromax and Yoshikane SKD. I've been saying that Yoshikane is the ultimate version of lasers. Simply because it cuts more laserishly than all the traditional lasers I've tried including Takamura SG2/Chromax, Shibata AS/R2, Konosuke HD2/GS+, and Ikkanshi Tadatuna. And Yoshikane has more meat near the handle for better balance, more comfortable pinch grip and a bit more stiffness and more weight to help cutting.
The measurements I took of my Yoshikane match with these observations. The bevels are much more flat ground compared to "lasers" like the Kono HD2 or the Takamura R2. The Kono and Takamura had more of a convex right-handed grind.

Kono HD2 and Takamura R2 thickness behind the edge of
0.25mm/0.6mm/0.95mm (@1mm/5mm/10mm)

Yoshikane SKD
0.2mm/0.45mm/0.85mm (@1mm/5mm/10mm). It also tapers even thinner as you get toward the front.
 

deskjockey

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I just grabbed 2 6-cm tall carrots from my refrigerator and made these 2 videos for you. It tells you why I think Yoshikane and Toyama are my best cutters.

First one shows Takamura Chromax, Yoshikane SKD k-tip, Toyama dammy and Kato workhorse k-tip. These 4 are all some of my better carrot cutters.

The second one shows Takamura Chromax and Yoshikane SKD. I've been saying that Yoshikane is the ultimate version of lasers. Simply because it cuts more laserishly than all the traditional lasers I've tried including Takamura SG2/Chromax, Shibata AS/R2, Konosuke HD2/GS+, and Ikkanshi Tadatuna. And Yoshikane has more meat near the handle for better balance, more comfortable pinch grip and a bit more stiffness and more weight to help cutting.
😍 Super helpful videos! 😍

That Yoshikane SKD looks and sounds really impressive. I'm also concerned that first video may have me searching Toyama options to the detriment of my finances!
 

daniel_il

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