Best coarse stone for crap steel

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ref said:
The glass 500 should be plenty fast for stuff like wusthof/vnox, even with a couple chips.
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Bert2368 said:
+1 on the Shapton 500 glass (get the double thick version).
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I have a SG 500, and it’s a nice stone. I’d only start with it if the knife was in really good condition, though, and was already semi sharp.

Bert2368 said:
slowly dawning realization I should not hurt myself using a stone where a power tool made more sense
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amen. maybe the real solution is to stop sharpening crap knives until I live in a situation where a belt sander is possible.
 
ian said:
I have a SG 500, and it’s a nice stone. I’d only start with it if the knife was in really good condition, though, and was already semi sharp.
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Have you tried using lots of pressure, after a fresh resurfacing? I am probably misremembering how look those crappy knives took me though...
 
Yea, they usually come with small chips, and enough fatigued steel that even with a 120 grit stone it takes me a few minutes to get a consistent burr.
 
OK I wanted to get some sessions in with the Pride Abrasive 220/1000 combo stone before I posted my thoughts. I got that, along with the 8K/10K stone as well. I've had a few sessions spaced a few days apart to really let this set in, so here's what I can report back.

Speaking to the 220 grit stone specifically, I can say:
-It DOES remove material fast, and brings up a burr almost instantly on cheaper knives. I did NOT try this out on any good knives with higher quality and harder steels as I would not want to eat away that much metal and had no need to do so.

- It is hard and thirsty. I let mine soak for almost an hour while I was finishing up another project and it still needed way more water than any other stone I have as I went along. It has a very hard feel, and is loud enough to sound like you are murdering your knife on it.

- It leaves a "decent" finish, but I don't have much to compare it to other than an 300 grit Ultrasharp plate, as I have never used a stone this coarse before. It was sharp coming off the stone, but not like coming off a Shapton Glass 500.

- It leaves an almost sand-like slurry. I wouldn't even call it a mud, but it actually feels like sand. Very much a PITA to clean up.

Bottom line for me was that it worked well for hogging off metal and resetting a messed up bevel pretty quickly. I was not a real fan of using it, OR the 1K side, but your mileage may vary.

I will probably end up selling this one down the road, as I feel more comfortable using a diamond plate or a Shapton Glass 220 stone than this.

That said, this 220/1K may work well for somebody who is just using it as a fixer/1st stone, as you can work up a burr and move off it very quickly.
 
ian said:
... I basically do all the work on a 200ish grit stone, setting a pretty acute angle, then jump up to 500ish, polish the acute bevel and set another more conservative one, and strop on cardboard...
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I noticed this in your other thread but didn't want to derail the discussion. Have you settled on a favorite 200ish grit, or is the common wisdom correct that they're all different shades of terrible?
 
Interesting thread, cheers!

I personally use a cheap combi oilstone atm, it doesn't say but the sides are apparently around 150 and 400. Works alright, but feels like crap.

I think I'll probably upgrade soon, and leave major removal for the belt sander, so good to read some recs here :)
 
ian said:
Sigma 240’s pretty good. Loses water quickly, but it’s very fast. I’ve also been enjoying SG 220, although I haven’t used it enough to give a full review.
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Thanks for the update. Lately I've been feeling the GS500 is somewhat pointless preceding the SP1500 (which is perfect for setting up my medium-fine naturals). I ordered the medium Crystolon on a whim, I'll have to try the Sigma 240 if that doesn't work. Either way I suspect that SiC is the way to go for extra coarse stones.
 
For cutting the initial bevel on very soft knives that have been heavily blunted I have found that a hand file works better than any stone.
 
Mr.Wizard said:
Have you used a Norton Crystolon? Are the XL Oil Stones of similar quality? I like the fact that they are US made.
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Yes. Replaced a coarse and medium Norton crystolon's with these. In use I couldn't tell a difference. Side by side, the colors were slightly different but very similar. Otherwise I'd call them the same.
 
120/220 grit sandpaper is what I use for super abused crap steel. Wet it and lay it on top of either an atoma or one of your other stones. I can set the bevels super fast, then finish with a SP1k
 
ian said:
Just to beat you to it: “a brick! the sidewalk!”

But seriously, say I want something that’ll remove steel like a mofo on soft stainless —— think Henckel or Wustoff at the best, maybe a Vic, but also think about Cuisinart and Cutco knives and crap like that. What do you pick? I’m thinking lowww grit, like for initial bevel setting on knives that wouldn’t cut your arm if you hacked at it. Currently I’m using a SG 120 for most of the initial bevel setting, which is ok, and I liked Sigma 240, but I’d be interested in other ideas/opinions. Kinda curious about Suehiro Debado 200, SG 220 too.
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M1k3 said:
Yes. Replaced a coarse and medium Norton crystolon's with these. In use I couldn't tell a difference. Side by side, the colors were slightly different but very similar. Otherwise I'd call them the same.
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I wouldn't be surprised if they were Norton's.
 
Michi said:
Indeed! As is the price, at USD 450…
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I reckon I could have a crack at this in that timeframe on my Norton 140/400 combi, which is less than 1/10th of that price. I've done quite a lot of fairly big repair work with it, and the coarse side eats steel.

Now that I've got all the oil out of it I rather like it - it was messy as hell before. Still doesn't feel great, but does it's job.
 
cotedupy said:
I reckon I could have a crack at this in that timeframe on my Norton 140/400 combi, which is less than 1/10th of that price.
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I don't think the point of the video was to prove that it is the fastest manual abrasive available, but rather how extraordinarily fast (and gouge resistant) the Super Vitrified stone is for 400 grit.
 
Mr.Wizard said:
I don't think the point of the video was to prove that it is the fastest manual abrasive available, but rather how extraordinarily fast (and gouge resistant) the Super Vitrified stone is for 400 grit.
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Yep, fair point. I would do a most of that on the coarse side of my stone.
 
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