Best Guided system for new guy

Discussion in 'Sharpening Station' started by Simon T, Sep 23, 2019.

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums by donating:

  1. Sep 23, 2019 #1

    Simon T

    Simon T

    Simon T

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2019
    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    UK, Great Britain
    Hey.
    Sorry I posted about guides, but looking at reviews, some can scratch and also damage the stone.
    I seen the wedges which seem a little better, but yo are left free handing one you have left the wedge.

    What other guided cheap systems are there so I can get the hang of free handing?

    Thanks all
     
  2. Sep 23, 2019 #2

    Caleb Cox

    Caleb Cox

    Caleb Cox

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2019
    Messages:
    86
    Location:
    Danville, VA
    The Edge Pro Apex model is cheapest guided stone system that I'd recommend. You won't learn freehand technique, but you will learn some about feedback, burr formation, etc. Any true angle guidance besides the wedge/stack of pennies is going to be too much of a crutch to allow you to learn.
     
  3. Sep 23, 2019 #3

    JoeWheels

    JoeWheels

    JoeWheels

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2018
    Messages:
    30
    Agree with Caleb.
    Edge Pro Apex is a good system that will teach you a lot about sharpening overall.
    The translation to freehand sharpening from EP is fairly direct.
     
  4. Sep 28, 2019 #4

    Simon T

    Simon T

    Simon T

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2019
    Messages:
    30
    Location:
    UK, Great Britain
    Thanks all.
    Apex is quite expensive. I will probably just keep freehanding on my old knives until I get the hang of it.

    Most youtube videos that try show you are very poor as its hard to gauge the angle on a video
     
  5. Sep 28, 2019 #5

    Corradobrit1

    Corradobrit1

    Corradobrit1

    Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2015
    Messages:
    1,450
    And pressure and when its applied
     
  6. Sep 28, 2019 #6

    suntravel

    suntravel

    suntravel

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2019
    Messages:
    207
    Location:
    Germay
    Best cheap one for bench stones is the Warthog, but really good ones are more expensive...

    .. and only done by yourself or from makers in russia like Bogdan

    http://warthogusa.com/product/multi-edge/

    Regards

    Uwe
     
  7. Sep 28, 2019 #7

    zoze

    zoze

    zoze

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2013
    Messages:
    292
    Got mine from this suntravel guy.
     
    suntravel likes this.
  8. Sep 28, 2019 #8

    suntravel

    suntravel

    suntravel

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2019
    Messages:
    207
    Location:
    Germay
    Yeah you are one from the chosen few :D

    Regards

    Uwe
     
    Carl Kotte likes this.
  9. Sep 28, 2019 #9

    slickmamba

    slickmamba

    slickmamba

    Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2018
    Messages:
    346
    Just practice freehanding, it doens't take long to get used to it
     
    KingShapton likes this.
  10. Sep 29, 2019 #10

    KingShapton

    KingShapton

    KingShapton

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2019
    Messages:
    93
    Location:
    Germany
    +1
     
  11. Sep 29, 2019 #11

    Benuser

    Benuser

    Benuser

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,758
    Better get a cheap thin carbon knife, a good loupe (6-10x) and a marker instead. For the knife I would suggest a simple Robert Herder. Cut a few wine corks with an inclination that corresponds to commonly used angles, for reference.
    Blades sharpened with jig systems I've seen invariably had nice edges, protruding shoulders and got far too thick behind the edge. Great edges, poor cutters.
     
    Carl Kotte likes this.
  12. Sep 30, 2019 #12

    Eloh

    Eloh

    Eloh

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2015
    Messages:
    212
    .. Wich has nothing to do with the jig itself obviously, just with the fact that the ones you saw didn't do a good job of utilizing it.

    You can do the same thinning procedure you would do without it and just using it to make a microbevel, as tiny as possible, wich is the way it should be used.

    Just mentioning it because these things get miss characterized on here all the time.
    A good jig is just a tool. You still need to know how to use it in the most effective way.
    If you don't thin your knife when you need to that doesn't have anything to do with the tools you use just with a lack of knowledge and technique.
    Wich is why I wouldn't recommend them to beginners anyway, rather to people who already are decent freehand sharpeners who feel a need to optimize their personal sharpening procedure.
     
  13. Sep 30, 2019 #13

    Benuser

    Benuser

    Benuser

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,758
    IIRC, the minimal angle on one of the EPs was 6°. Not the kind of thinning I'm used to.
     
  14. Sep 30, 2019 #14

    suntravel

    suntravel

    suntravel

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2019
    Messages:
    207
    Location:
    Germay
    EP is not the only jig system, the one I use starts from 0° and could also set up for convex grinds between two angles...

    ... but for thinning I also prefer freehand, jig only for the bevel.

    Regards

    Uwe
     
  15. Sep 30, 2019 #15

    Eloh

    Eloh

    Eloh

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2015
    Messages:
    212
    Sorry for not getting my point across properly: I thin my knives completely freehand (probably similarly to you) . I only use a jig for setting a small microbevel, wich is the procedure I would strongly recommend.

    Ps
    I also have 3k stone and a dick micro steel at work for quick freehand touch ups if necessary, I'm not a jig fundamentalist just saying it can be a helpful tool for optimizing sharpening results
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2019
    Benuser likes this.
  16. Sep 30, 2019 #16

    Benuser

    Benuser

    Benuser

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,758
    Thanks for clarifying! Makes a lot of sense. A beginner shouldn't start with a system before getting the basics, i.e. raising a burr, chasing it and getting rid of it, by hand.
     
  17. Oct 1, 2019 #17

    Benuser

    Benuser

    Benuser

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,758
    On a side note: @Eloh, how do you find an angle on the Dickoron Micro? Just curious, as I find it easily on leather, stones, cardboard, you name it. But with the Micro I find it hard, unless the edge has already some damage.
     
  18. Oct 1, 2019 #18

    suntravel

    suntravel

    suntravel

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2019
    Messages:
    207
    Location:
    Germay
    No need to find the perfect angle with a fine steel like Dick Micro, just a bit steeper than grinding, bang bang, and it will be sharp...

    ... it is almost non abrasive.

    For the good freehand sharpener it should be no prob estimating the right angle in no time ;)

    The better pro chefs i know are doing about 10 strokes/s on a steel, even the ones sharpening with a jig :D

    Regards

    Uwe
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
  19. Oct 2, 2019 #19

    rob

    rob

    rob

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2018
    Messages:
    62
    If you want to use a jig system i would recommend the Spyderco Sharpmaker.
    I don't see it mentioned here often. They are pretty cheap and IMO work quite well (used one for years on folding and kitchen knives) You can even adjust your angle to suit sharpening the tip.
     
  20. Oct 2, 2019 #20

    Eloh

    Eloh

    Eloh

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2015
    Messages:
    212
    What suntravel said. The surface is super fine on a dick micro, so you can't do so much wrong, unless you are banging your edge too hard against it.

    Obviously it works better the tougher and softer the blade material. I usually use it on my Solingen beater and rarely use it on harder blades unless it's hectic at work.
     
  21. Oct 2, 2019 #21

    Benuser

    Benuser

    Benuser

    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Messages:
    5,758
    Thanks guys!
     

Share This Page