Best heat treat of blue 2

Japanese Knives - by Tokushu Knife
Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
S

shobudonnie

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2023
Messages
284
Reaction score
312
Location
Dallas, Texas
I’ve used quite a few different versions of blue 2. Yoshikazu Tanaka, ikeda, nakagawa, togashi, Masamoto, Toyama, Wakui…

In my opinion, the edge retention of blue 2 is not that much better than white 2. Blue 1 is clearly, noticeably better than white 2, but the difference between white 2 and blue 2 seems insignificant.

Out of all the blue 2 that I used, I think Toyama had the best heat treat. But it’s not by a lot. They are all very similar.

I can’t speak for tamura toru(tetsujin) or Minamoto yasukuni(migoto) because I haven’t used those. Please let me know what their blue 2 is like compared to the above.

But I want to know what other people think. In your experience, whose heat treat of blue 2 really stands out?
 
gentiscid said:
How did u get into this conclusion? Can u elaborate the evaluation of HT just by using the knife? And was it home setup or professional kitchen?
Click to expand...
this is just from my experience, but I thought Toyama had the best edge retention, was the easiest to sharpen, and was the toughest. The sharpness was all about equal. I am a chef, so I use knives for many hours a day.
 
Toyama's B2 really does feel different from the rest subjectively. It feels similar to Tanaka AS tbh. Hard/glassy on stones and very tough feeling. Even my Wakui with similar geometry doesn't feel the same way. The other only B2 I've tried are tetsujin and shiro kamo, but it's really hard to compare because the geometries are so different.
 
HiramWare Knife Sharpening Stone with Non-slip Rubber Base, 400/1000 Grit Premium Whetstone, Double-Sided Knife Sharpener for Kitchen, Waterstone for Honing Blades Manually
$9.99
HiramWare Knife Sharpening Stone with Non-slip Rubber Base, 400/1000 Grit Premium Whetstone, Double-Sided Knife Sharpener for Kitchen, Waterstone for Honing Blades Manually Hiram Deals
YeopAsda Knife Sharpening Stone Set - Premium 4 Side Grit 400/1000 3000/8000 Whetstone Sharpener Kit - Non-Slip Bamboo Base,Cut Resistant Gloves, Angle Guide,Flatting Stone,Honing Guide,Leather Strop
$39.99
YeopAsda Knife Sharpening Stone Set - Premium 4 Side Grit 400/1000 3000/8000 Whetstone Sharpener Kit - Non-Slip Bamboo Base,Cut Resistant Gloves, Angle Guide,Flatting Stone,Honing Guide,Leather Strop YeopAsda
Sharp Pebble Premium Whetstone Knife Sharpening Stone 2 Side Grit 1000/6000 Waterstone- Whetstone Knife Sharpener- NonSlip Bamboo Base & Angle Guide
$42.99
Sharp Pebble Premium Whetstone Knife Sharpening Stone 2 Side Grit 1000/6000 Waterstone- Whetstone Knife Sharpener- NonSlip Bamboo Base & Angle Guide MIGHTY DREAMS
HENCKELS Razor-Sharp 20-Piece Statement Knife Set with Block, With Bonus Sharpener, German Engineered Knife Informed by over 100 Years of Masterful Knife Making
$199.95
HENCKELS Razor-Sharp 20-Piece Statement Knife Set with Block, With Bonus Sharpener, German Engineered Knife Informed by over 100 Years of Masterful Knife Making Knife Aid, Inc.
THRWCLUB Axe Sharpener 400/1000 Grit - Hatchet/Axe Sharpening Stone, Axe Blade Sharpener, Sharpening Puck, Lansky Puck, Dual Grit Multi-Purpose Hatchet Sharpening Tool with Leather Sheath
$9.99
THRWCLUB Axe Sharpener 400/1000 Grit - Hatchet/Axe Sharpening Stone, Axe Blade Sharpener, Sharpening Puck, Lansky Puck, Dual Grit Multi-Purpose Hatchet Sharpening Tool with Leather Sheath IEXPO
Knife Set with Block, N NOBLE FAMILY 16Pcs Kitchen Knives Drawer Organizer Set with Sharpener, Cutting Board, Anti-Slip Chef Knives Set with 6Pcs Steak Knives, Black
-23%
$99.99 $129.99
Knife Set with Block, N NOBLE FAMILY 16Pcs Kitchen Knives Drawer Organizer Set with Sharpener, Cutting Board, Anti-Slip Chef Knives Set with 6Pcs Steak Knives, Black Jianyamei
Angerstone Portable Whetstone Knife Sharpening Stone - Outdoor Hunting Knife Sharpener Stone Kit Dual Grit 400/1000 - Pocket Sharpening Stones for Knives with Cowhide Pouch for Bushcraft Camping Field
-7%
$13.99 $14.99
Angerstone Portable Whetstone Knife Sharpening Stone - Outdoor Hunting Knife Sharpener Stone Kit Dual Grit 400/1000 - Pocket Sharpening Stones for Knives with Cowhide Pouch for Bushcraft Camping Field Crazy Potato
BRODARK Kitchen Knife Set with Block, Full Tang 15 Pcs Professional Chef Knife Set with Knife Sharpener, Food Grade German Stainless Steel Knife Block Set, Christmas Gifts, Steel-king Series
-25%
$88.98 $118.00
BRODARK Kitchen Knife Set with Block, Full Tang 15 Pcs Professional Chef Knife Set with Knife Sharpener, Food Grade German Stainless Steel Knife Block Set, Christmas Gifts, Steel-king Series Brodark Store
Knife Sharpening Stone - Dual Grit Whetstone 400/1000 3000/8000, Knife Sharpening Stone Set, Tpstone Knife Sharpener Tool,Easy to Use
$25.99
Knife Sharpening Stone - Dual Grit Whetstone 400/1000 3000/8000, Knife Sharpening Stone Set, Tpstone Knife Sharpener Tool,Easy to Use TPstone choice
Knife Sharpening Stone Kit, KERYE Professional Japanese Whetstone Sharpener Stone Set, Premium 4 Side Grit 400/1000 3000/8000 Water Stone, Flattening Stone, Angle Guide, Leather Strop, Anti Cut Gloves
$32.84
Knife Sharpening Stone Kit, KERYE Professional Japanese Whetstone Sharpener Stone Set, Premium 4 Side Grit 400/1000 3000/8000 Water Stone, Flattening Stone, Angle Guide, Leather Strop, Anti Cut Gloves Sakai Heritage
Knife Set, 15 Pieces Kitchen Knife Set with Built in Sharpener, German High Carbon Stainless Steel Knife Block Set, Dishwasher Safe, Black
$79.99
Knife Set, 15 Pieces Kitchen Knife Set with Built in Sharpener, German High Carbon Stainless Steel Knife Block Set, Dishwasher Safe, Black Amorston Offical
zongchuan 5 PCS Damascus Chef Knife Set, Ultra-Smooth Cutting Experience and Professional Grade Sharp, Kitchen Knife Set,Handle Ergonomic Design,9CR18MOV High Carbon Stainless Steel,Dishwasher Safe
-33%
$51.10 $76.79
zongchuan 5 PCS Damascus Chef Knife Set, Ultra-Smooth Cutting Experience and Professional Grade Sharp, Kitchen Knife Set,Handle Ergonomic Design,9CR18MOV High Carbon Stainless Steel,Dishwasher Safe ZongChuan Official Store
HOSHANHO 16-Piece Knife Set, Japanese AUS-10 Stainless Steel Kitchen Knife Set, Ultra Sharp Chef Knife Block Set with Sharpener
$428.99
HOSHANHO 16-Piece Knife Set, Japanese AUS-10 Stainless Steel Kitchen Knife Set, Ultra Sharp Chef Knife Block Set with Sharpener HSH-DE
Intelitopia Complete Knife Sharpening Stone Set – Dual Grit Whetstone 400/1000 3000/8000 Knife Sharpener with Leather Strop, Flattening Stone, Bamboo Base, 3 Non-slip Rubber Bases & Angle Guide
-21%
$26.99 $33.99
Intelitopia Complete Knife Sharpening Stone Set – Dual Grit Whetstone 400/1000 3000/8000 Knife Sharpener with Leather Strop, Flattening Stone, Bamboo Base, 3 Non-slip Rubber Bases & Angle Guide keepooon
MOSFiATA Kitchen Knife Set, 12 Pcs Japanese Stainless Steel Knife Sets for Kitchen with Oxford cloth storage bag with Knife Sharpening Rod, Dishwasher Safe, For Outdoor
$79.99
MOSFiATA Kitchen Knife Set, 12 Pcs Japanese Stainless Steel Knife Sets for Kitchen with Oxford cloth storage bag with Knife Sharpening Rod, Dishwasher Safe, For Outdoor iHome888
Angerstone Axe Sharpener - 3.8”Oversized Axe/Hatchet Sharpening Stone - Whetstone Blade & Tool Sharpener, Dual Grit 180/320 Sharpening Puck with cowhide Sheath for Bushcraft, Camping and Field Use
$15.99
Angerstone Axe Sharpener - 3.8”Oversized Axe/Hatchet Sharpening Stone - Whetstone Blade & Tool Sharpener, Dual Grit 180/320 Sharpening Puck with cowhide Sheath for Bushcraft, Camping and Field Use Crazy Potato
Dfito Chef Knife Sets with Roll Bag, 9 Pieces Professional Knife Set, High Carbon Stainless Steel Kitchen Chef Knife Set, Red Pakkawood Handle, Dishwasher Safe
$99.99
Dfito Chef Knife Sets with Roll Bag, 9 Pieces Professional Knife Set, High Carbon Stainless Steel Kitchen Chef Knife Set, Red Pakkawood Handle, Dishwasher Safe Dfito Direct
MIDO PROFESSIONAL ABRASIVE Knife Sharpening Stone 400/1000 Whetstone Sharpening Stone with Non-Slip Rubber Base for Kitchen, Hunting, and Pocket Knives or Blades
$9.99
MIDO PROFESSIONAL ABRASIVE Knife Sharpening Stone 400/1000 Whetstone Sharpening Stone with Non-Slip Rubber Base for Kitchen, Hunting, and Pocket Knives or Blades miduguoji
Kitchen Knife Set, 4 Pcs Damascus Chef Knife Set With Wooden Box, 8" Chef Knife, 5" Utility Knife, 8" Bread Knife, 7" Santoku Knife, Gift Set for Men Women Christmas, Thanksgiving Gifts
$56.99
Kitchen Knife Set, 4 Pcs Damascus Chef Knife Set With Wooden Box, 8" Chef Knife, 5" Utility Knife, 8" Bread Knife, 7" Santoku Knife, Gift Set for Men Women Christmas, Thanksgiving Gifts Funistree-US
Piklohas Kitchen Knife Sets for Kitchen with Block, 17 Pieces with Magnetic Knife Holder, German High Carbon Stainless Steel Damascus Pattern Chef Knives Set with Sharpener, Steak Knives
-16%
$159.98 $189.99
Piklohas Kitchen Knife Sets for Kitchen with Block, 17 Pieces with Magnetic Knife Holder, German High Carbon Stainless Steel Damascus Pattern Chef Knives Set with Sharpener, Steak Knives Piklohas Kitchen
I notice a fair bit of edge/tooth retention from white 2 to blue 2. White tends lose its tooth and drop off a cliff when it decides to go, whereas blue 2 seems a bit more linear decline for me.

Okubo and Toyama are my 2 "best" blue 2s from an edge retention standpoint. Toyama is a little more glassy on the stones, but I give the edge to the Okubo for lasting bite. Just my experience as a home cook
 
So maybe this should go in Unpopular Opinions but I gotta say, I hardly pay any attention to the different paper steels any more. I used to be all uppity against shirogami but really, in my normal home use and with a modicum of edge maintenance, I just don't really notice a bunch of difference. Sure, I notice it with AS but the others just kind of blend.

I'd have to look up what exact steels a few of my knives even are. 🤷‍♂️
 
I have the same feeling about the paper steels -- my best blue no. 2's are Watoyama and Y. Tanaka. They don't feel all that different from my Mazaki in white no. 2, though they do feel quite different from other versions of white no. 2, like Munetoshi. All of those, in turn, feel quite different from my white and blue no. 1's: Goko and Y. Tanaka.

All of this is thoroughly subjective, and I'm just a humble home cook.
 
I don’t have any of the knives mentioned above, so I cannot compare.

I do have three knives in blue 2 from Itsuo Doi, and they are very well ground. The steel is hard, but it is responsive on the stones and a pleasure on the board. I’d be curious if someone who has a Doi and one or more of the others might weigh in with a comparison.
 
Theoretically speaking blue 2 is better than white 2 in every category except maybe ease of sharpening. The differences are not large though and in most cases are wiped out by differences in geometry. Toyama is supposed to be very hard and often comes with 0 edge, so it cuts great, but also microchips initially. Being very hard is probably why it feels glassy to some and also is harder to sharpen for some than other blue 2 or white 2. The blue 2 that felt the best on the stones for me was Mizuno blue 2 honyaki, I don't know what the heat treat of that was, but it felt great on the stones. I only had one example of that knife, so not sure if all of them are like that. Edge retention is hard to determine since geometry of different knives can be very different so no way to know if steel or heat treat is what causes the difference in perceived edge retention differences.
 
Kono MM in Blue 2. Ms. Mori while working at Shiraki/Nakagawa Hamono (so I would assume Nakagawa would be similar). Heads above Y. Tanaka White 2 (which soured me on white 2). Easier to sharpen, takes a wicked edge very easily and as a home cook lasts to the point where I think "I should maybe sharpen this" as opposed to White 2 which is "f*ck I need to sharpen this"

Edit: so the forum is now changing swear works - f * ck without spaces is showing as heck
 
Last edited:
My experience with Blue 2 versus White 2 is in agreement with Swampdonkey. I am a home user of knIves, so I’m sure a professional environment is different, but I find my blue 2 knives don’t need attention and often as my white 2 knives.

I use my Konosuke Fujiyama FM B2 255 funayuki and it stays sharp for a very long time, as does my Anryu B2 hammered knives and they are not hard to sharpen for me. When I use my White 2 knives from Wakui, Hatsukokoro, Hinoura, and Kagekiyo, I find they start to go down cutting tomatoes and peppers pretty fast comparatively. I use a hinoki or Hasegawa soft rubber cutting board and I’m very light on cutting so I rarely have any chipping since I’m seldom in a hurry when prepping.
 
Last edited:
I think tomatoes are a tough test. If I have a bunch to cut, I'm likely grabbing something else. Good shout on the MM. That is a great knife in blue no. 2, doesn't feel quite as hard as Y Tanaka or Toyama on the stones.
 
esoo said:
Kono MM in Blue 2. Ms. Mori while working at Shiraki/Nakagawa Hamono (so I would assume Nakagawa would be similar). Heads above Y. Tanaka White 2 (which soured me on white 2). Easier to sharpen, takes a wicked edge very easily and as a home cook lasts to the point where I think "I should maybe sharpen this" as opposed to White 2 which is "heck I need to sharpen this"

Edit: so the forum is now changing swear works - heck was f9ck
Click to expand...
****

??
 
Honorable mention: my Shiro Kamo "tora" blue 2 is quite hard, and he has a history of taking his steels harder, but I can't honestly speak to edge retention as it's a laser and I don't use it for weeks on end to get an honest feel for it. Just feels hard as **** on board on stones


Edit: I typed the F word
 
HumbleHomeCook said:
So maybe this should go in Unpopular Opinions but I gotta say, I hardly pay any attention to the different paper steels any more. I used to be all uppity against shirogami but really, in my normal home use and with a modicum of edge maintenance, I just don't really notice a bunch of difference. Sure, I notice it with AS but the others just kind of blend.

I'd have to look up what exact steels a few of my knives even are. 🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...
I do mostly veggie/fruit prep so Blue and AS definitely > white 2 for me. White is great if you only cut protein but loses edge quickly to acid imho
 
NotAddictedYet said:
I do mostly veggie/fruit prep so Blue and AS definitely > white 2 for me. White is great if you only cut protein but loses edge quickly to acid imho
Click to expand...

Fair and in full disclosure, most of the knives on my current active duty roster are some variation of aogami but that's probably as much coincidence as consciousness. I liked the designs first and the steel second. I still have shirogami knives that move in and out of the rotation.

I won't dispute that on the whole aogami will hold it's edge longer than shirogami. I was just saying with the little bit of touch up I routinely do and no longer than my usual prep sessions are, I don't really get to the point of the difference coming into play.
 
I feel the same as Swampdonkey. Both edge and bite are better in Aogami #2 than Shirogami #2 in my home use.
I also have to give best Aogami #2 to Okubo.
 
Logan A. said:
Doi aogami HT is supposed to be up there with the best. Haven’t tried it personally.
Click to expand...
I had a doi blue 2 gyuto and remember the steel seeming really great. But also it is a chunkier grind so perhaps that played a role. Toyama always seems quite high edge retention for blue 2, another level than most. Mazaki blue 2 seemed great, but I don’t know if I ran my through the paces enough to be sure.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Back
Top