I do have a Japanese-made knife now and I like it, and it IS useful and good to have a truly sharp knife. But just as ultimate toughness means a dull knife, ultimate sharpness means a fragile knife. Neither one is perfect. Having both and being able to choose is much closer to perfect.
For German knives, there really isn't any point in going much beyond 1000. You can get them shaving sharp on a 1 K stone with a bit of practice, especially if you strop a little afterwards. (All you really need is a bit of cardboard.)
As far as stainless ones are concerned.You can get any 56hrc knife more than sharp enough for kitchen use though, you just need harder steel to support a significantly thinner geometry behind the edge
but isnt for low hrc knifes a fine stone is useless ?and once in a few weeks a few strokes on a fine stone
why is it that when you take a low hrc knive and strop it on a high grit stone it loses its bite ?I don’t have a 2k stone. I’ve tried with a 3k. The knives got a little sharper that way, but also lost their bite on tomatoes.
I can see a 2k working, but I’d say it’s optional.
I'm not really sure why that's happening. I see this with my soft Wüsthofs, but not with my Japanese knives. Not that a Wüsthof sharpened on a 3k stone won't cut—it is still very sharp. But it has a tendency to glide over tomato skin a little instead of biting immediately they way my harder Japanese steels do.why is it that when you take a low hrc knive and strop it on a high grit stone it loses its bite ?
i see the same thing i am asking why do you think it is hapenning what is the theory/science behind this phonomenaI'm not really sure why that's happening. I see this with my soft Wüsthofs, but not with my Japanese knives. Not that a Wüsthof sharpened on a 3k stone won't cut—it is still very sharp. But it has a tendency to glide over tomato skin a little instead of biting immediately they way my harder Japanese steels do.
Maybe my sharpening technique isn't good enough. No idea. But, when I stop at 1k for the Wüsthofs, they work better on tomatoes, and they tend to stay that for quite some time.
Not necessarily. You may consider soft carbons like Sabs. Take and hold a very high polish, and are very tough. Require a bit more maintenance.But just as ultimate toughness means a dull knife, ultimate sharpness means a fragile knife.
what are sabs and why do they hold a very high polish and 58 hrc stainless steel does not hold if you polish with a high grits stone ?Not necessarily. You may consider soft carbons like Sabs. Take and hold a very high polish, and are very tough. Require a bit more maintenance.
and in simpler terms, a Sabatier with such low HRC can be polished with an 8k stone and cut tomatoes have bite and hold well?Sabs — Sabatiers — are soft carbons, 54-56Rc. No chromium carbides breaking out of the soft matrix as with soft stainless. A high grit stone will weaken the soft matrix a bit more but leave the carbides untouched, leading to edge instability. No such a thing with even the softest carbons.
This pedant won't use simpler terms in what happens to be his fourth language.and in simpler terms, a Sabatier with such low HRC can be polished with an 8k stone and cut tomatoes have bite and hold well?
I guess Escoffier used tomatoes. But Sabs require a lot of maintenance, by steeling with a polished rod or by other means.and in simpler terms, a Sabatier with such low HRC can be polished with an 8k stone and cut tomatoes have bite and hold well?
how come you are so in favor of using honing steels ?I guess Escoffier used tomatoes. But Sabs require a lot of maintenance, by steeling with a polished rod or by other means.
so you do not recommend this honing rod ?
Amazon.com
this is what i have and i use what are the downsides of it ?
btw if you use a honing steel do you apply little force onto it or alot ?
With pressure: you mill a new, coarse edge at a probably much higher angle on top of the old one without deburring it, so it's life span will be very short.@Benuser said:
With little pressure you create a wire edge, a special case of a burr, on top of the old edge. Very sharp, until it comes into contact with the board and folds over the edge, which is instantly blunt like a butter knife, or breaks leaving a moonscape-like edge behind.
I'm certainly not in favour of an average honing rod. Have seen and explained the damage they are likely to cause. But for daily maintenance of a soft stainless, I don't know an alternative to a Dickoron Micro. For other steel types, I never use a rod at home.how come you are so in favor of using honing steels ?
when i asked about the usage of a ribbed Wusthof steel you have told me that the edge it produces fails upon contact with board and it will turn a knife to a butter knife and that you recommend to avoid it
you have a dickoron micro and you use it on the soft stainless knives ?I'm certainly not in favour of an average honing rod. Have seen and explained the damage they are likely to cause. But for daily maintenance of a soft stainless, I don't know an alternative to a Dickoron Micro. For other steel types, I never use a rod at home.
why do you use it dry ?dry Naniwa Pro 800
Has to do with that specific stone. Just less abrasive. Not willing to raise a fresh burr. We're talking about two very light edge leading strokes and two along the edge per side. I do it when the Dickoron becomes less effective and I'm not willing to give it a full sharpening, starting at 320.why do you use it dry ?
interesting i wish i could buy the diockoron somedayHas to do with that specific stone. Just less abrasive. Not willing to raise a fresh burr. We're talking about two very light edge leading strokes and two along the edge per side. I do it when the Dickoron becomes less effective and I'm not willing to give it a full sharpening, starting at 320.
is this your fisher honing rod ?
you use both a dickoron microYes, I do use Dickoron Micro and Polish with soft stainless. Or a dry Naniwa Pro 800.
I would skip the points 1 to 3. You may give a try to cardboard for stropping. It's fairly abrasive. But as you're hampered in recognising burrs I'm not sure it will work.
why recommend the dickoron micro vs the dickoron polish vs the dickoron sapphire cut?you use both a dickoron micro
and also a dickoron polish ?
if so which one do you recommend more the dickoron micro or the polish ?
that is nice but the edge will become thick overtime and will require thinningI have lots of Henckels 4-star knives, I think the new name is Zwilling. I also have several Wusthof knives. I keep 30 in 2 knife blocks and several in a drawer.
I don't use a hone any more with my knives. I use a Worksharp Ken Onion sharpener to sharpen my knives. And when I need a touch up I use the Worksharp. It is real fast to sharpen. I sharpen at 15 degrees per side. I started using 17.5 degrees and I feel like 15 is better. I have one big 11.5 inch chef knife that I sharpen at 20 degrees as I use it to cut chickens in half.
I can sharpen one of my dull knives in less than 5 minutes. Touch up is like 1 minute.
I here that a lot but none of my knives have worn down that much. And some of my mom's knives that I own now are over 50 years old.that is nice but the edge will become thick overtime and will require thinning
A little late to the conversation, but better late then never.why recommend the dickoron micro vs the dickoron polish vs the dickoron sapphire cut?
which one do you recommend the best for soft stainless 58 hrc the most and why ?
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