Blade lengths.....

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KasumiJLA

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My few cents...

First the harsh unpleasant truths:
-Length preferences are highly personal. While some of the benefits and downsides of going up or down in length are somewhat objective, only you can decide what you actually prefer.
-There is no easy shortcut here... the only way to figure this out for yourself is to actually try stuff... usually for a longer time.

To complicate matters further.
-There are a lot of factors that influence your perception of how a knife feels and that will make it feel longer, shorter, or easier / harder to wield. For example total weight, weight distribution / balance, height, taper, all have a significant impact. I have 270s that feel easier to wield than my 230 Wüsthof simply because they're lighter and balanced differently. Knives can 'feel' significantly longer or shorter than they really are.
-Then there's personal factors coming into play; your grip and cutting style. As others have mentioned, pinchgripping somewhat 'shortens' the knife. For rockchopping, more length generally improves the ergonomics, etc.
-Knife makers are not consistent in how they measure length. So to compare 2 extreme examples; my Masamoto KS 240 (which runs significantly long at 255) is almost exactly the same length as my Ashi Ginga 270 (which runs significantly short at around 260).
-Over time your skills and preferences are likely to change. This could go either way... but for me things started feeling 'smaller' over time. A knife that feels large now might feel wimpy a year from now. You might also change cutting techniques. So your own preferences are unlikely to remain completely static.

The more objective upsides/downsides:
-Shorter knives will generally be 'easier' to use from the start since everything is just extending less far from your hand.
-For the same reason it's a bit easier to use the tip accurately on a shorter knife; a longer knife exaggerates the movement a bit. But this can be mitigated; you get used to more length over time, and there's always the option of crimping up on the blade a bit and/or putting your index finger on top of the spine. Or just relying on your guide hand.
-Shorter knives are lighter for a given grind / geometry / height. Though whether or not this is a good or a bad thing is a personal preference thing.
-Shorter knives are a bit more nimble. For this reason you usually see even the most hardcore 270 gyuto enthusiasts breaking out honesukis and petties when they're doing boning work or trimming meats.

-Board / kitchen size. If for whatever reason you're really restricted in available space / board size (they usually go hand in hand; people get small boards because they just don't have the space in the kitchen) then larger knives can become problematic. Although one shouldn't overstate this. I don't really have a problem using a 270 on a board that's just 35 cm deep. Or a 240 on a 25 cm deep board. But you do want to make sure you're not poking into any bowls on the other side of it...

-Longer knives are outright more efficient because you can put more product under the knife. It also makes it easier to cut piles of anything, for example when you're doing a brunoise.
-Longer knives make it easier to cut larger and taller products.
-Longer knives are more ergonomical if you don't cut straight down (so rockchopping or guillotine & glide), because the angle the knife makes in relation to the board becomes lower.
-Longer knives make better slicers (less back & forth sawing).
-Longer knives give the maker more room to work with, so it's easier to make a useful profile.

I probably forgot some things. Personally I started off with some 200 stuff...after long deliberation went up to 240 with the same doubts as you have... then after a while bought some 210...and at this point I'm exploring 270s. In the end it's worth having stuff in different lengths. The 270s are great when I'm making a salad with big bulbs of fennel, but when you're just cutting a shallot and a few cloves of garlic it doesn't give any added benefit.
+1 for this!

Over time your skills and preferences are likely to change.
I think this is one of the most interesting points. Our tastes change and what we cook changes with the seasons, at least for me. In my head I tell myself that 270mm is way too much. But I'm leaving myself open to try and see how I like this length. Maybe I'm wrong and I'll enjoy working with it! So in short, you must always be open to new things and not be afraid to step out of your comfort zone.
 

Jovidah

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Definitly. It took me a long time before I took the plunge to 270s. But I actually use them far more than I expected, and the switch was surprisingly easy. But it's possible that I simply got 'lucky' in that I picked 270s that would work well for me.

Oh and another + for long blades because Benuser always brings it up: theoretically you have better edge retention on longer blades since you basically have more edge. Although I think that would also depend on your cutting technique.
 
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270 is rarely too much knife, but 240 is often not enough.

More seriously, I would add that space is not just board and counter depth but also how much room you have behind and around the board. I had a tiny Brooklyn apartment, but the work area was a well-planned square. I had no problem with a 270, whereas, in a much bigger but narrow galley kitchen, the same knife feels unwieldy.
 
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Choil/heel design makes way more of a difference than I originally realized.

This Makoto is 239 mm but the forward-swept heel gives you the full length of the blade in front of your pinch

20230428_214001.jpg



This Birch&Bevel is 254 mm and you can see from the patina I'm not really using that back 10+mm of the knife under my index knuckle in my normal pinch. I'm actively trying to train my brain to use the heel more but I thought the first patina pics on a new knife were illustrative. In practice I wouldn't be able tell you the bottom knife is 15 mm longer than the top.

20231120_074147.jpg
 

bsfsu

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When I sell knives, blade length is a big factor to consider.

The length of the blade must suit the customers intended use of the knife and I think there are a few factors that must be addressed and I think they have all been covered in this thread. This community has a fantastically weird understanding of the intricacies of knives but most people generally don't so these are the things I consider with a customer.

* What they currently use (is there a size they are looking for)
* Replacement knife or expanding the collection
* Height of person
* Hand / finger size
* Kitchen bench size
* Chopping board size
* Cooking experience
* What they cook (meat lover, vegan etc.)
* Shared or personal knife (if another person is using it we start at the top again)
* What feels comfortable to the user

Some or all of these help people choose the right sized knife.


(Personally I prefer to use a 240mm Gyuto for most things, {EDIT: re-mesured some knives and I'm reducing the height 42 -46 not 45-48mm, what was I thinking, 47mm is like cutting with a paddle!} anything taller is like putting training wheels on your knife or using a weird shaped long Santoku)
 
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My few cents...

First the harsh unpleasant truths:
-Length preferences are highly personal. While some of the benefits and downsides of going up or down in length are somewhat objective, only you can decide what you actually prefer.
-There is no easy shortcut here... the only way to figure this out for yourself is to actually try stuff... usually for a longer time.

To complicate matters further.
-There are a lot of factors that influence your perception of how a knife feels and that will make it feel longer, shorter, or easier / harder to wield. For example total weight, weight distribution / balance, height, taper, all have a significant impact. I have 270s that feel easier to wield than my 230 Wüsthof simply because they're lighter and balanced differently. Knives can 'feel' significantly longer or shorter than they really are.
-Then there's personal factors coming into play; your grip and cutting style. As others have mentioned, pinchgripping somewhat 'shortens' the knife. For rockchopping, more length generally improves the ergonomics, etc.
-Knife makers are not consistent in how they measure length. So to compare 2 extreme examples; my Masamoto KS 240 (which runs significantly long at 255) is almost exactly the same length as my Ashi Ginga 270 (which runs significantly short at around 260).
-Over time your skills and preferences are likely to change. This could go either way... but for me things started feeling 'smaller' over time. A knife that feels large now might feel wimpy a year from now. You might also change cutting techniques. So your own preferences are unlikely to remain completely static.

The more objective upsides/downsides:
-Shorter knives will generally be 'easier' to use from the start since everything is just extending less far from your hand.
-For the same reason it's a bit easier to use the tip accurately on a shorter knife; a longer knife exaggerates the movement a bit. But this can be mitigated; you get used to more length over time, and there's always the option of crimping up on the blade a bit and/or putting your index finger on top of the spine. Or just relying on your guide hand.
-Shorter knives are lighter for a given grind / geometry / height. Though whether or not this is a good or a bad thing is a personal preference thing.
-Shorter knives are a bit more nimble. For this reason you usually see even the most hardcore 270 gyuto enthusiasts breaking out honesukis and petties when they're doing boning work or trimming meats.

-Board / kitchen size. If for whatever reason you're really restricted in available space / board size (they usually go hand in hand; people get small boards because they just don't have the space in the kitchen) then larger knives can become problematic. Although one shouldn't overstate this. I don't really have a problem using a 270 on a board that's just 35 cm deep. Or a 240 on a 25 cm deep board. But you do want to make sure you're not poking into any bowls on the other side of it...

-Longer knives are outright more efficient because you can put more product under the knife. It also makes it easier to cut piles of anything, for example when you're doing a brunoise.
-Longer knives make it easier to cut larger and taller products.
-Longer knives are more ergonomical if you don't cut straight down (so rockchopping or guillotine & glide), because the angle the knife makes in relation to the board becomes lower.
-Longer knives make better slicers (less back & forth sawing).
-Longer knives give the maker more room to work with, so it's easier to make a useful profile.

I probably forgot some things. Personally I started off with some 200 stuff...after long deliberation went up to 240 with the same doubts as you have... then after a while bought some 210...and at this point I'm exploring 270s. In the end it's worth having stuff in different lengths. The 270s are great when I'm making a salad with big bulbs of fennel, but when you're just cutting a shallot and a few cloves of garlic it doesn't give any added benefit.
"To complicate matters further.
-There are a lot of factors that influence your perception of how a knife feels and that will make it feel longer, shorter, or easier / harder to wield" - such as your height, weight and hand size.... ;)
 

Jovidah

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"To complicate matters further.
-There are a lot of factors that influence your perception of how a knife feels and that will make it feel longer, shorter, or easier / harder to wield" - such as your height, weight and hand size.... ;)
Oh yes definitly. I think physical differences are also a major factor in why some profiles work for some people and not for other. All the angles change when someone is longer or shorter. The best example of this is probably Yoshikane. I think almost everyone agrees that the grind is good, but still it's somewhat divisive because the profile is a hate it or love it kind of thing.
What complicates this more is that there's an interaction between your own height and the countertop height... There really isn't a good one size fits all answer.
 

Taurahe

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I offered short knives, but that is because I have very limited workspace. A 210mm anything is max size I will use comfortably . I prefer knives in the 180 range though, just for ease of use
 

fourmations

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Go buy stiff cardstock, cardboard, or plastic or metal sheeting. Cut out the knife dimension in height and length and profile you want. Test it.

I've used 130-330mm as my regular knife, and size doesn't matter a whole whole bunch but smaller is just fine for cooking only for myself
Great idea!! I work in a sign company with a cnc router and i do graphics/artwork so I traced the Shibata kotetsu r2 in the 210 and 240! (Which is what I've decided I want to look at getting) and the guys cut it out in 3mm aluminium composite, The 240 still seems a little over the top but I like the taller blade, the 240 it's out of stock in Europe and more budget than I'd planned on so I don't want to get into UK/US customs so im still on the fence! I'll wait a bit and see if the 240 comes back into stock but if it's ages I'll get the 210 or another model, cheers
 

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fourmations

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For reference the global has a 180 blade but I grip it right on the skinny neck part as the handle is formed that way graduated for comfort so it is a pinch grip but not onto the blade, so this makes it as long as the 210 in reality in hand
 

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