Blues - Fujiwara Denka vs takada vs hitohiro

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Dan E

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Hi everyone,

I've browsed quite a bit but found not enough information to decide on my next knife buy. Concretely, I have the choice between the fujiwara denka, the takada no hamono blue 2 suiboku, the hitohira tanaka migaki, and the hitohira tanaka Yohri.

I am looking for the knife with the best craft and, if possible, best cutting capability. I prefer not to have a laser as I would imagine it to be too brittle with blue 2 steel.

What are your thoughts on this? I know there is a lot of love for the Fujiwara -- but I wondered if there aren't any serious competitors around the same price point.

Best regards,
Dan

Edit: I am aware of the QC issues people experienced with the fujiwara denka. I can buy those kinves locally and have a thorough glance at it, so I have no risk in receiving a "bad" one. So the question above would be about a flawless denka vs the rest.
 
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the takada no hamono blue 2 suiboku (if not from carbon knife co) is forged by nagakawa from shiraki. His Blue 2 is some of the best and feels utterly beautiful to sharpen. The profile is extremely flat - something that some users prefer and others dont. The tanaka yohei has a very similar grind from what i can tell and has a slightly more rounded profile. The steel will likely hold an edge longer and be a bit stiffer on the stones. The Tanaka migaki (I am assuming sharpened by Kyuzo) will be easier to maintain from a thinning perspective and will cut very well. It is the opinion of some users that the full convex bevel of sharpeners like yohei and takada outperforms wide bevels for cutting performance, but the tradeoff is they are not as straightforward to maintain. My money would be on the Tanaka Yohei in Blue 1 steel but each to their own. I've not used TF so wont comment on them but there is a plethora of info out there.
 
TF, Y Tanaka, and Nagakawa/Shiraki are all very highly respected, hard to go wrong with any.
It’s really hard for me to know what “best craft” means. I think they’d all be capable cutters.
I wouldn’t call any of those options lasers, so you’re safe there.
My suggestion would be to go with your preferred aesthetic, as I’d expect all to perform extremely well.
 
Awesome, thanks a lot for your insights. It’s good to know that all of them seem to be

@Garm I can handle the TF here, and I think the Yohei and Takada as well. The rest I could get through importers but they might not have them for preview.

mill try to see the TF soon and post some updates here.

best regards!
 
Dan E said:
I can handle the TF here, and I think the Yohei and Takada as well.
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Then I would go with whichever you most like the the feel, balance and profile of once you have it in your hands. I haven't used any of the knives you mention(I have used other knives by TF, but not a Denka), but you're choosing between pretty high-end knives that should all perform very well.
I read a knife review here on the forum which included a score on a criterion that I've not seen mentioned often, but I thought was extremely apt: "grabability"
Which knife has that feel in hand and ease of use that would make you more likely to reach for it most often? This isn't necessarily as simple to gauge just by holding it in a store, but for me personally, that initial feeling is seldom too far off at least.
 
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Garm said:
Then I would go with whichever you most like the the feel, balance and profile of once you have it in your hands. I haven't used any of the knives you mention(I have used other knives by TF, but not a Denka), but you're choosing between pretty high-end knives that should all perform very well.
I read a knife review here on the forum which included a score on a criterion that I've not seen mentioned often, but I thought was extremely apt: "grabability"
Which knife has that feel in hand and ease of use that would make you more likely to reach for it most often? This isn't necessarily as simple to gauge just by holding it in a store, but for me personally, that initial feeling is seldom too far off at least.
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Completely agree! If you’re actually able to handle most of these knives, let that guide your decision. Craft and cutting capability should
all be outstanding as others have pointed out, but actually trying them is the best way to see which one suits your hands and technique best, or which one just feels special. Especially important with the TF Denka, as there seem to be plenty of not really great examples despite the high price. I hand picked mine at the store in Tokyo a few years back (when prices where much more reasonable) and I’d choose it over any other knive I’ve handled thus far. Some people have the same experience, others dislike them, which is understandable, too. Anyway, let us know how the different knives felt and which one you chose!
 
I own a Takada white 2 and a Y.Tanaka blue 1 yohei, the Takada knives are significantly more flat, whereas the Tanaka has a gentle continuous curve, which you would find to be more versatile.
The Tanaka has a sandblasted finish which will make it incredibly reactive, it’s advisable to sand down theface of the blade to decrease this reactivity, but the Takada has a beautiful finish which will get hidden by patina and removed when thinning.

both very very good knives, but they have their significant differences
 
Barry's Knives said:
the takada no hamono blue 2 suiboku (if not from carbon knife co) is forged by nagakawa from shiraki. His Blue 2 is some of the best and feels utterly beautiful to sharpen. The profile is extremely flat - something that some users prefer and others dont. The tanaka yohei has a very similar grind from what i can tell and has a slightly more rounded profile. The steel will likely hold an edge longer and be a bit stiffer on the stones. The Tanaka migaki (I am assuming sharpened by Kyuzo) will be easier to maintain from a thinning perspective and will cut very well. It is the opinion of some users that the full convex bevel of sharpeners like yohei and takada outperforms wide bevels for cutting performance, but the tradeoff is they are not as straightforward to maintain. My money would be on the Tanaka Yohei in Blue 1 steel but each to their own. I've not used TF so wont comment on them but there is a plethora of info out there.
Click to expand...

I was wondering have you used Nakagawa's White 2 or 1? If so how do you think it compares to his Blue 2 for the Suiboku? I've stuck myself in the realm of white steel because of the ease of feel and feedback from sharpening. I own his White 2 and I highly rate it for cutting feel and sharpening. As a home cook; I'm not concerned with edge retention but mainly things on "feeling" to make it more enjoyable.

I haven't reached to the point of thinning but I thought thinning full convex bevel knives would be easier than wide bevels? My main concern when the time comes I'll end up making a wobbly Shinogi line and ruin the Migaki finish on the Hira. o_O
 
Thanks everyone for the valuable insights. After a lot of reading and thinking I got a Toyama gyuto the other day.

This being said, I am still in for looking at the Takada blue and was advised to check out the Togashi blue (with stainless cladding as I am close to the Sea) as well. Seemingly all of those blades have great finishing and it boils down -- as some of you said -- to own preference in profile and look.

Best regards,
Dan
 
Certainly can't go wrong with a Toyama. I am on the hunt for an older 270mm iron clad gyutos.

His blue#2 is wonderful.
 
Dan E said:
does this mean that they forced you to send the knife back or could you keep cash and blade?
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They said I have to send the knife back, otherwise they're not gonna pay me back my money, I did, & I didn't need ****** knife as well, so I don't care if I keep the blade or not. 😂😂😂
 
TF is probably one of the most misunderstood knife brands out there. That link from a German knife forum which @Corradobrit1 shared on another thread pretty much sums it up.
There exists a chasm between what they offer in terms of finishing and the expectations of buyers (especially in the Western market). We can be certain they face no such issues in their domestic market where they see things differently. (That thread addresses this.)
I had my misgivings having read about the issues here and elsewhere, but felt intrigued enough to take the plunge.
From a purely functional perspective they are uncompromising. @lemeneid was spot on in past posts when he said wonky or not, they cut like nothing else out there. My own experience is that they take an insanely sharp edge and hold it for the longest time. I’ve “abused” mine prep after prep and the edge still holds (like it was freshly sharpened with just a strop on linen). It has no business doing so, but it does.
Is mine wonky? Yes it is. Would it offend some buyers out there? For sure. Does it get in the way of cutting? Not even in the least. To me, they are an absolute joy to use. My only regret is not getting into it sooner.
 
Denka is on my list of the next few to buy. I’ve had two Maboroshi: the first was pretty good, certainly worth the money alongside my others at a similar price, but I didn’t like the profile as much. Gave it to someone who ended up giving it back (long story, not because she didn’t like the knife) then traded it. The second I liked the profile more and it again was a perfectly fine cutting tool with excellent steel.

Then during the extra free time I’ve had due to the pandemic I’ve gotten much more practice at thinning, polishing, and reshaping. The Mab is one of the knives I’ve done some more work on and now holy Moses does it go. And I’m sure it can be made even better. For the dream knife thread, how about a Denka ground by Morihiro or Kato?

So I believe TFs are knives that require opening just like traditional single bevels. It ships with a usable edge but almost invariably requires a full opening to release its full potential, and this is a feature of one form of the traditional craft, not a bug.
 
nyc said:
TF is probably one of the most misunderstood knife brands out there. That link from a German knife forum which @Corradobrit1 shared on another thread pretty much sums it up.
There exists a chasm between what they offer in terms of finishing and the expectations of buyers (especially in the Western market). We can be certain they face no such issues in their domestic market where they see things differently. (That thread addresses this.)
I had my misgivings having read about the issues here and elsewhere, but felt intrigued enough to take the plunge.
From a purely functional perspective they are uncompromising. @lemeneid was spot on in past posts when he said wonky or not, they cut like nothing else out there. My own experience is that they take an insanely sharp edge and hold it for the longest time. I’ve “abused” mine prep after prep and the edge still holds (like it was freshly sharpened with just a strop on linen). It has no business doing so, but it does.
Is mine wonky? Yes it is. Would it offend some buyers out there? For sure. Does it get in the way of cutting? Not even in the least. To me, they are an absolute joy to use. My only regret is not getting into it sooner.
Click to expand...
I agree the finish is not great but once they have been flattened they are awesome they fit two levels for a sharpener those that do not work beyond the edge fine but for a sharpener that works on the wide bevel then the edge there is some work to do I feel that there are many wide bevel knives that have hollows & hills I imagine it is a way to save money for the buyer. Chisels come with a minimal finish & the discerning user will do quite a lot of work on them before using.
 
andrewsa said:
I was wondering have you used Nakagawa's White 2 or 1? If so how do you think it compares to his Blue 2 for the Suiboku? I've stuck myself in the realm of white steel because of the ease of feel and feedback from sharpening. I own his White 2 and I highly rate it for cutting feel and sharpening. As a home cook; I'm not concerned with edge retention but mainly things on "feeling" to make it more enjoyable.

I haven't reached to the point of thinning but I thought thinning full convex bevel knives would be easier than wide bevels? My main concern when the time comes I'll end up making a wobbly Shinogi line and ruin the Migaki finish on the Hira. o_O
Click to expand...
My blue 2 gyuto from nakagawa holds the edge better than my white 2 but not by much. Both are fantastic to sharpen. Def had low spots and an issue thinning the knives which results in a wavy shinogi line on the nakiri. Not going to bother fixing it till it needs more thinning. Lovely knives.
 
Also my Denka didn’t get any sharper or hold it’s edge profoundly better than my Nakagawa in blue 2. It also would have required about 8 hours of thinning to get it to perform better on carrots and potatoes.
 
Dan E said:
Hi everyone,

I've browsed quite a bit but found not enough information to decide on my next knife buy. Concretely, I have the choice between the fujiwara denka, the takada no hamono blue 2 suiboku, the hitohira tanaka migaki, and the hitohira tanaka Yohri.

I am looking for the knife with the best craft and, if possible, best cutting capability. I prefer not to have a laser as I would imagine it to be too brittle with blue 2 steel.

What are your thoughts on this? I know there is a lot of love for the Fujiwara -- but I wondered if there aren't any serious competitors around the same price point.

Best regards,
Dan

Edit: I am aware of the QC issues people experienced with the fujiwara denka. I can buy those kinves locally and have a thorough glance at it, so I have no risk in receiving a "bad" one. So the question above would be about a flawless denka vs the rest.
Click to expand...

I have both a 240 TF denka and 240 Takada, suibiko, blue 1—both very different knives, both awesome knives, depends on your tastes. Takada f&f is top notch; with denka you gotta embrace rusticness, imperfections—both are very distinctive knives aesthetically. Regarding overall performance—both are wonderful knives in their own right—Takada a more precise, finesse cutter, thinner, more laserish; denka I'll use as a more all-around gyuto. Takada is a better balanced, nimbler knife to me. Steel quality from both makers is stellar IMO. I personally wouldn't rate one over the other, love them both. Denka will probably take more work on your end to work out any wonkiness; Takada suibiko would win a beauty pageant. My long winded way of saying you can't go wrong—once you decide what you value in a knife, what your tastes are.
 
If you are looking to get the Takada no Hamono B2 Suiboku also have a look at the Hitohira Kikuchiyo Yohei 240mm Aogami2.

The only difference between those two is the finish which reflects upon the pricing and also the specs on paper are just a tad bit thicker (0.03mm) than the Suiboku since you're after something that's not a laser.

Both are the same steel forged by the same person. Shiraki = Nakagawa = Kikuchiyo along with it being sharpened/finished by the same person. Takada no Hamono = Yohei.



 
andrewsa said:
If you are looking to get the Takada no Hamono B2 Suiboku also have a look at the Hitohira Kikuchiyo Yohei 240mm Aogami2.

The only difference between those two is the finish which reflects upon the pricing and also the specs on paper are just a tad bit thicker (0.03mm) than the Suiboku since you're after something that's not a laser.

Both are the same steel forged by the same person. Shiraki = Nakagawa = Kikuchiyo along with it being sharpened/finished by the same person. Takada no Hamono = Yohei.
Click to expand...

Strongly endorse this blade. Wish I had gotten one with this finish.
 
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