Budget Jnat or higher end synthetic for polishing?

[Thpp9]

So I am a new polisher and I would like to get a finishing stone.

I was planning on grabbing a Morihei Karasu 9k since I've heard great feedback about its polishing ability. On the other hand, I looked at JNS yesterday and there were available some koppas from Aiiwatani and Shoubudani in the range of 120-250€. According to the description they do some nice kasumi, but there weren't any polishing pictures unfortunately.

I would like to hear your thoughts and your preference. Also I would greatly appreciate if any of you has some of the stones mentioned above and could post a photo from the finish they achieve!

Thank you in advance!

 

[Ochazuke]

If you're new to polishing, a synthetic is more consistent and easier to learn on than a natural stone. I get wanting to jump in, but the path can be really rocky and full of frustration. For synthetics I really like the kitayama, though I find it easier to go semi-mirror on it than kasumi. It is a great 8k synthetic - very easy to learn on and gives good results even with mediocre technique.

 

[Thpp9]

If you're new to polishing, a synthetic is more consistent and easier to learn on than a natural stone. I get wanting to jump in, but the path can be really rocky and full of frustration. For synthetics I really like the kitayama, though I find it easier to go semi-mirror on it than kasumi. It is a great 8k synthetic - very easy to learn on and gives good results even with mediocre technique.

Right now I am polsihing on my NP3K and my Rika 5k. Naniwa is pretty tricky, leaves streaks and shinny spots pretty easily and Rika doesn't produce a nice result on my knife. I managed to get a decent result from my NP3K, but I have to spend a long time on it.

As far synthetic stones initially I was thinking of Karasu 9k, Suehiro Greek 8k and Kitayama 8k. I read here somewhere that Karasu and Suehiro leave a finish pretty close to Uchigumori and I was kinda intrigued

 

[Pie]

Kitayama can be a little picky sometimes. Depending on mud consistency it may streak or leave the cladding somewhat uneven. I found that it’s absolutely killer for creating a “pre finisher” surface that doesn’t look too great, but is quite fine and sets up your finisher in an awesome way. Previous step using Naniwa ss 5k to clean up the core steel to really see what kind of frost the finisher produces. That said, NP3k is my step before the super stone, and it is capable of creating big contrast with little streaking (muddy muddy, low pressure for consistency).

I’ve been eyeing those koppa you’re looking at too, I’d probably put in a question to maxim and see if that’s what you’re looking for. At that middle hardness they seem like a good place to start.

 

[user 16756]

If you're new to polishing, a synthetic is more consistent and easier to learn on than a natural stone. I get wanting to jump in, but the path can be really rocky and full of frustration. For synthetics I really like the kitayama, though I find it easier to go semi-mirror on it than kasumi. It is a great 8k synthetic - very easy to learn on and gives good results even with mediocre technique.

interesting, I actually feel that for final polishing a muddy natural is a lot easier to get a good result with than any of the synthetics I've used.

So I am a new polisher and I would like to get a finishing stone.

I was planning on grabbing a Morihei Karasu 9k since I've heard great feedback about its polishing ability. On the other hand, I looked at JNS yesterday and there were available some koppas from Aiiwatani and Shoubudani in the range of 120-250€. According to the description they do some nice kasumi, but there weren't any polishing pictures unfortunately.

I would like to hear your thoughts and your preference. Also I would greatly appreciate if any of you has some of the stones mentioned above and could post a photo from the finish they achieve!

Thank you in advance!

IME the lvl 2.5 stones Maksim stocks are better as pre-finishers than finishers. if I wanted a relatively inexpensive stone to do final polish, I'd try and find a small Maruoyama shiro suita. I sold one in your price range a little while ago when I got my big 1.3kg one. typical examples are very easy stones to polish with; high mud production, very pure, a bit softer. or a slightly finer Shobu Tomae in the 3 or even 3.5 region. granted all these numbers are kind of arbitrary but still.

not saying I dont like Maksim's stones in this group I really do but I think of them more as appropriate for bridging between say a Natsuya and a finisher.

 

[Thpp9]

interesting, I actually feel that for final polishing a muddy natural is a lot easier to get a good result with than any of the synthetics I've used.



IME the lvl 2.5 stones Maksim stocks are better as pre-finishers than finishers. if I wanted a relatively inexpensive stone to do final polish, I'd try and find a small Maruoyama shiro suita. I sold one in your price range a little while ago when I got my big 1.3kg one. typical examples are very easy stones to polish with; high mud production, very pure, a bit softer. or a slightly finer Shobu Tomae in the 3 or even 3.5 region. granted all these numbers are kind of arbitrary but still.

not saying I dont like Maksim's stones in this group I really do but I think of them more as appropriate for bridging between say a Natsuya and a finisher.

Honestly, I am totally new to natural stones. I have a lot to learn about them for sure. I think I am gonna have to study a bit and maybe talk to Maksim as well for some indicators.

Thank you very much for your input tho. I will keep my eyes open for the ones you suggested!

 

[Kawa]

If it's purely about end-step polishing, get yourself a Naniwa superstone 5k.
The finish is way higher then the gritt suggests. I get a mirror polish out of it. Even the superstone 2k almost finishes like a mirror.


If you want a special kasumi/hazy/cloudy/blurry/other-then-mirror finish, don't get a superstone.
For mirror, it's a cheap stone with very good polishing capabilities

 

[Thpp9]

If it's purely about end-step polishing, get yourself a Naniwa superstone 5k.
The finish is way higher then the gritt suggests. I get a mirror polish out of it. Even the superstone 2k almost finishes like a mirror.


If you want a special kasumi/hazy/cloudy/blurry/other-then-mirror finish, don't get a superstone.
For mirror, it's a cheap stone with very good polishing capabilities

Well, unfortunately I am looking for that kasumi/hazy/cloudy/blurry/other-than-mirror finish lol. I've been hearing that the superstones are doing a really nice job on the hard steel, but unfortunately no contrast, so I have to give it a pass for the moment.

 

[ReiHamono]

I don’t recommend those jnats, for kasumi jnat I would choosing mikawa nagura and soft shiro suita

For synthetic the morihei 9k is a great choice but you need all of your stones before that producing a kasumi finish as well my shapton 1k 1.4K and 2k set it up perfectly, then I use nagura then shiro suita you can use a soft tomae after this as well

I soak my stones well and only use my “soft” stones, you can change out the shiro suita for a soft uchigamori as well (habiki) and the tomae can be replaced with a hard uchigamori (jibiki)

So I am a new polisher and I would like to get a finishing stone.

I was planning on grabbing a Morihei Karasu 9k since I've heard great feedback about its polishing ability. On the other hand, I looked at JNS yesterday and there were available some koppas from Aiiwatani and Shoubudani in the range of 120-250€. According to the description they do some nice kasumi, but there weren't any polishing pictures unfortunately.

I would like to hear your thoughts and your preference. Also I would greatly appreciate if any of you has some of the stones mentioned above and could post a photo from the finish they achieve!

Thank you in advance!

p

 

[Pie]

If you’re still interested in jnat (wherever in the progression) , I suggest starting a conversation with @musicman980. He’s got some nice small stones for reasonable prices, and top notch quality in my experience.

This higo came off one of his with about 10 minutes of effort, please ignore the tip and heel (lack of polishing skill).
Heavy contrast, but both cladding and core are mirror smooth. I love this stone . Time and experience are your friends, I wouldn’t go spend $800 on an unknown quantity, but the more stones you try and practice on, the more you’ll learn!

 

[Thpp9]

If you’re still interested in jnat (wherever in the progression) , I suggest starting a conversation with @musicman980. He’s got some nice small stones for reasonable prices, and top notch quality in my experience. View attachment 146734View attachment 146735
This higo came off one of his with about 10 minutes of effort, please ignore the tip and heel (lack of polishing skill).
Heavy contrast, but both cladding and core are mirror smooth. I love this stone . Time and experience are your friends, I wouldn’t go spend $800 on an unknown quantity, but the more stones you try and practice on, the more you’ll learn!

Thanks for the recommendation and also really nice finish!

For the moment I am trying to keep it a bit budget friendly because the last couple months I bought more knives than I should lol.

 

[Steampunk]

Maksim's got some awesome rocks for polishing... It just depends on how high you want to take it, and what sort of geometry you want.

If you're going for a Hamaguri (Convex) grind, his JNS Red Aoto can deliver an amazing polish for its grit when perma-soaked (Just be careful to never let it dry out.), and is very forgiving.

His Speckled Aoto and JNS 6000 are also excellent polishing stones when perma-soaked, and the 6K in particular can take the finish to a really lovely place, but are a little less forgiving than the Red Aoto. Again, perma-soak them, and don't let them dry out, ever!

For flatter bevels, his more affordable Lv.2.5 to lv.3.5 Koppa's and conventional-cut J-Nat stones can create even richer finishes, but are less forgiving on more extreme convex geometries. Sometimes I cheat, and use his finger stones as Nagura on more convex bevels for a more even finish.

Softer, coarser stones are a little easier to get an even finish from. Harder, finer stones always require a little more trial and error. If you truly flatten your bevels, I find it a little easier to achieve a good finish from natural stones (J-Nats or Belgians.), rather than synthetics. On more convexed bevels, hard naturals can be kind of challenging, and softer synths can be a little easier at a given 'grit'.

Hope this helps.

 

[Thpp9]

Maksim's got some awesome rocks for polishing... It just depends on how high you want to take it, and what sort of geometry you want.

If you're going for a Hamaguri (Convex) grind, his JNS Red Aoto can deliver an amazing polish for its grit when perma-soaked (Just be careful to never let it dry out.), and is very forgiving.

His Speckled Aoto and JNS 6000 are also excellent polishing stones when perma-soaked, and the 6K in particular can take the finish to a really lovely place, but are a little less forgiving than the Red Aoto. Again, perma-soak them, and don't let them dry out, ever!

For flatter bevels, his more affordable Lv.2.5 to lv.3.5 Koppa's and conventional-cut J-Nat stones can create even richer finishes, but are less forgiving on more extreme convex geometries. Sometimes I cheat, and use his finger stones as Nagura on more convex bevels for a more even finish.

Softer, coarser stones are a little easier to get an even finish from. Harder, finer stones always require a little more trial and error. If you truly flatten your bevels, I find it a little easier to achieve a good finish from natural stones (J-Nats or Belgians.), rather than synthetics. On more convexed bevels, hard naturals can be kind of challenging, and softer synths can be a little easier at a given 'grit'.

Hope this helps.

That was really helpful. It totally makes sense that softer stones work better on convexed grinds. I haven't tried an hard stone for polishing a convex grind but I can already feel the pain.

That Speckled Aoto (Aoto Matukusuyama, right?) and JNS 6k got me a bit interested. Do they only perform properly as a polisher only if it's permasoaked? Permasoaking makes the stone feel a bit softer and it releases more mud, right?

 

[Steampunk]

That was really helpful. It totally makes sense that softer stones work better on convexed grinds. I haven't tried an hard stone for polishing a convex grind but I can already feel the pain.

That Speckled Aoto (Aoto Matukusuyama, right?) and JNS 6k got me a bit interested. Do they only perform properly as a polisher only if it's permasoaked? Permasoaking makes the stone feel a bit softer and it releases more mud, right?

Correct... It softens the stone, makes it release mud much more readily, and thus results in less streaking on the cladding (Most streaking happens in the first few moments. The faster you can get mud, the easier you can avoid erasing the contrast foundation from your coarser stones.). These stones also aren't 'splash & go', and will drink water if splashed for a really long time. They hold water better if soaked. However, they tend to crack if permasoaked, and you then let them dry out. Never let them dry, and they will last you awhile.

The Aoto Matukusuyama's contrast/polish isn't as high as the JNS Red Aoto or JNS 6K (The cladding's a little lighter matte grey, and the core has a mistier polish.), but it's reliably streak-free, still attractive, and the edge quality on Shirogami is pretty sweet. Also doesn't dish as fast as the very soft red Aoto.

The JNS 6K polishes the core very well, and doesn't mess up the cladding as readily as some. The look is a little more 'synthetic' (Highly polished core, with a matte, light-grey cladding. Real J-Nats provide a mistier polish on the core, and a darker, slightly glossier look to the cladding, with lower contrast between the two.), but it's pretty, and looks factory-fresh. It's a little easier to get streaks than on either of Maksim's synthetic Aoto's, but it's still not as bad as most 6K synths I've used.

Typically one starts on the cladding with light to moderate pressure, and moves down to the core with heavy pressure to get the best polish/contrast. It also helps if you're not making too small of a jump. The texture from coarser grits on the steel, can help release more abrasive faster from your finishing stones.

Hope this helps.

 

[Pie]

Thanks for the recommendation and also really nice finish!

For the moment I am trying to keep it a bit budget friendly because the last couple months I bought more knives than I should lol.

Thanks! I fully understand. However be warned, this rabbit hole has some sort of mystery suction powers

 

[Thpp9]

Correct... It softens the stone, makes it release mud much more readily, and thus results in less streaking on the cladding (Most streaking happens in the first few moments. The faster you can get mud, the easier you can avoid erasing the contrast foundation from your coarser stones.). These stones also aren't 'splash & go', and will drink water if splashed for a really long time. They hold water better if soaked. However, they tend to crack if permasoaked, and you then let them dry out. Never let them dry, and they will last you awhile.

The Aoto Matukusuyama's contrast/polish isn't as high as the JNS Red Aoto or JNS 6K (The cladding's a little lighter matte grey, and the core has a mistier polish.), but it's reliably streak-free, still attractive, and the edge quality on Shirogami is pretty sweet. Also doesn't dish as fast as the very soft red Aoto.

The JNS 6K polishes the core very well, and doesn't mess up the cladding as readily as some. The look is a little more 'synthetic' (Highly polished core, with a matte, light-grey cladding. Real J-Nats provide a mistier polish on the core, and a darker, slightly glossier look to the cladding, with lower contrast between the two.), but it's pretty, and looks factory-fresh. It's a little easier to get streaks than on either of Maksim's synthetic Aoto's, but it's still not as bad as most 6K synths I've used.

Typically one starts on the cladding with light to moderate pressure, and moves down to the core with heavy pressure to get the best polish/contrast. It also helps if you're not making too small of a jump. The texture from coarser grits on the steel, can help release more abrasive faster from your finishing stones.

Hope this helps.

Thank you! That was really helpful and informative! I will give it a hard thought today and I will hopefully make a decision about what stone to buy!