Burr removal

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How do I learn about steels? I get completely lost when you guys are talking steel lol
Zknives.com is helpful.
scienceofsharp.com gets a lot of attention here.
For basic notions though
Roman Landes' Messerklingen und Stahl. Don't know if it has been translated.
 
Thanks, both of you. I'll start studying. There is so much to learn
From a practical point of view, please be aware that a steel's properties highly depend on the heat treatment it was given. It isn't always about a proper or bad HT: one maker may look for a though steel, or for a coarser grit offering more bite, while another prioritises a fine structure and high hardness allowing a thin, polished edge.
And a sharpener will see a lot of poorly treated cheap stainless who will get little attention here.
 
From a practical point of view, please be aware that a steel's properties highly depend on the heat treatment it was given. It isn't always about a proper or bad HT: one maker may look for a though steel, or for a coarser grit offering more bite, while another prioritises a fine structure and high hardness allowing a thin, polished edge.
And a sharpener will see a lot of poorly treated cheap stainless who will get little attention here.
Is there a way to tell what properties the steel can have if the heat treatment can vary?
 
Is there a way to tell what properties the steel can have if the heat treatment can vary?
Sure. Most properties directly result from their composition. And a smart maker won't use a good, perhaps expensive steel to produce poor results due to a poor HT. But there are some margins and choices.
Have a look at Zknives' Knife Steel Composition Chart, a very practical app.
 
Sure. Most properties directly result from their composition. And a smart maker won't use a good, perhaps expensive steel to produce poor results due to a poor HT. But there are some margins and choices.
Have a look at Zknives' Knife Steel Composition Chart, a very practical app.
There is so much on there I'm going to have to learn. Thank you for sharing. I didn't realize there was so much to sharpening. I thought just learn sharpening techniques and methods and then just practice practice practice for a long time. Didn't realize having to learn steels to be a better sharpener haha. Thanks again
 
Toothy edge, yes.

Realistically, whatever works for you.


Very perceptive point from Mike here.^^^

When I started out sharpening a lot of other people’s knives as a job (about a year ago), I’d put edges on stainless knives that I thought would work well in use.

What they didn’t do so well is fling silently through fine newspaper. And apparently that’s what people want to see when they come to collect their knives, so I changed how I finish cheap stainless to focus on that instead (which tbh is quite a lot easier too).

I’m pretty sure that in use I’d prefer the aggressively toothy / exposed carbide version, but it doesn’t sit well with the general public apparently!
 
There is so much on there I'm going to have to learn. Thank you for sharing. I didn't realize there was so much to sharpening. I thought just learn sharpening techniques and methods and then just practice practice practice for a long time. Didn't realize having to learn steels to be a better sharpener haha. Thanks again
Cooking I need to know about ingredients? From reading Reddit I thought it was all about knowing how to season the right cast iron pan!
 
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Cooking I need to know about ingredients? From reading Reddit I thought it was all about knowing how to season the right cast iron pan!
Yeah.
Season pan.
Tap knife on cutting board.
Put food in.
Add heat.
Click the tongs.
Voila!
Michelin Star meal.
 
Cooking I need to know about ingredients? From reading Reddit I thought it was all about knowing how to season the right cast iron pan!
Cooking, for the most part is simple. Some technical things yes but just like anything it's a matter of practice. I thought sharpening would be the same. Practice practice practice.
 
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Every @cotedupy sentence must contain 3 elements:
A noun
A verb
And “as a professional sharpener”

WE KNOW
E

K
N
O
W


(Just Kidding. I’d do it too, but I’d probably embellish a little. “When I’m on my yacht…..”)
Not boasting, just giving context so the rest of us don’t feel quite as inadequate… I have 10,000 hours in other departments, less than 20 on stones 😌
 
Very perceptive point from Mike here.^^^

When I started out sharpening a lot of other people’s knives as a job (about a year ago), I’d put edges on stainless knives that I thought would work well in use.

What they didn’t do so well is fling silently through fine newspaper. And apparently that’s what people want to see when they come to collect their knives, so I changed how I finish cheap stainless to focus on that instead (which tbh is quite a lot easier too).

I’m pretty sure that in use I’d prefer the aggressively toothy / exposed carbide version, but it doesn’t sit well with the general public apparently!
Could you tell how you get a stable smooth edge with soft German stainless — 4116, as used by Wüsthof, Zwilling / Henckels, Burgvogel / Messermeister? It's carbides are wide of 3-4 micron, in a soft matrix, tending to break out.
 
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Could you tell how you get a stable smooth edge with soft German stainless — 4116, as used by Wüsthof, Zwilling / Henckels, Burgvogel / Messermeister? It's carbides are wide of 3-4 micron, in a soft matrix, tending to break out.


So what I've now started doing for stuff like that is: Finishing with repeated, very low pressure, edge-trailing strokes at 1k or 2k, and then stropping with a reasonable amount of pressure on an unloaded, suede side, paddle strop:

IMG_3406.jpg



And having now perfected that technique after a bit of practice, I can say that it'll get really lovely edges on German stainless. What I can't say though is what the retention / stability is like, cos they're not my knives. You have a lot more, and longer experience sharpening this kind of thing than I do, so I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts too...
 
Not boasting, just giving context so the rest of us don’t feel quite as inadequate… I have 10,000 hours in other departments, less than 20 on stones 😌


Exactly!

(For instance - over on BrainSurgeonForums.com they regard me as a rank amateur. No matter how many paper towel cutting videos I post).
 
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So what I've now started doing for stuff like that is: Finishing with repeated, very low pressure, edge-trailing strokes at 1k or 2k, and then stropping with a reasonable amount of pressure on an unloaded, suede side, paddle strop:

View attachment 303396


And having now perfected that technique after a bit of practice, I can say that it'll get really lovely edges on German stainless. What I can't say though is what the retention / stability is like, cos they're not my knives. You have a lot more, and longer experience sharpening this kind of thing than I do, so I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts too...
Much will depend on the end user. Have no power equipment.
The simplest and worse though frequent case: he uses a medium steel rod. Quite a bit steel to be removed, geometry corrected, delivering a smooth, good looking somewhat polished edge at 3k that won't hold. Carbides breaking out and the rod will join in their destructive work.
The smart user. Uses scarcely a very fine rod — say a Dickoron Micro. Gets an edge finished by deburring on a SP2k after a NP400. Will last quite a time. A bit more of fatigued steel to be removed because of the rod.
The non-rod user gets an edge finished on a NP800. Will come back a bit quicker, less work to be done.
 
As for the edge geometry: today's Wüsthof come OOTB with straight 13° bevels they hardly take and never hold. Obviously for marketing purposes only. To add both performance and stability, I like to convex them, ending at least at 18° — and much higher if used under harsh circumstances, think poly boards — and remove the protruding shoulders. With the shoulders and crumbling edges, users apply far too much force, resulting in a hard board contact. Combine it with rock-chopping from the users' shoulders — pumping — and you get an idea.
 
Been working a lot on my technique and deburring lately. Happy to say my efforts are paying off. Thanks for this thread! Gave me some new insights and things to try out.



Nice.
What is your method?
 
Nice.
What is your method?
I change my technique quite often (still trying to find what works for me). For this sharpening: raise a burr on both side, minimize burr by doing light, full length strokes and ending with the lightest possible edge leading strokes. Stropped on a piece of MDF (gamechanger for me)
 
I change my technique quite often (still trying to find what works for me). For this sharpening: raise a burr on both side, minimize burr by doing light, full length strokes and ending with the lightest possible edge leading strokes. Stropped on a piece of MDF (gamechanger for me)
That's very close to what I do. I don't know what I'm doing wrong.
What is MDF?
 
That's very close to what I do. I don't know what I'm doing wrong.
What is MDF?
A piece of wood. It’s a board that’s made from woodfibers+resin. The woodfibers are really good at catching and removing any burr that’s left. It’s also hard, so u can apply more pressure than on leather without changing the angle (maybe 200g if needed?).
 

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