Buying a low cost stainless chinese cleaver - analysis paralysis

[tubaroo]

Buying a stainless chinese cleaver - analysis paralysis

Looking to get a *stainless* steel vegetable cleaver, under $200 preferably. For daily home use. I'm in USA.
Not looking for carbon steel this time. I will be using this at home everyday and would prefer not to have to worry about rust when cutting acidic food or leaving the washing/wiping till after I eat. Current set of low cost knives, picture below.

Mainly looking for cost efficiency, and a cleaver on the thinner/lighter side (<400g). Not sure about size, would the 9in/225mm cleavers be too long or heavy for home use? Looking for something with a flat-ish belly/profile. Would only use it for veg or boneless meat, have a heavier beater shibazi cleaver (3.8mm thick, 175mm long, 500g) to use on breaking fish/poultry bones.

I spent way too long looking into options and now I have too many options. Hence the analysis paralysis. I'm thinking of just getting 1 cleaver, hoping to avoid having to upgrade later on.

Right now I'm considering cheaping out and getting the Shibazi instead of CCK 1912, if I end up with a China Chinese cleaver.
But for around $100 which is what the CCK 1912 is nowadays, I can get better stainless steel from the Masahiro or Sakai Takayuki.
Or I could treat myself and get the Tojiro F-921, VG10 at around $140. Only thing is, it seems like the Tojiro is long 225mm and super heavy 480g, which is not ideal for home use?

Would appreciate you guys' opinions especially if you've owned any of the Japanese chuka bocho I'm considering.

aaarggh

And it seems like I need to set aside another $40 or so to get a King combo whetstone.




$40-$50
Checked out Asian supermarkets around me, found cheapish $25 and under cleavers, usually 4Cr or 5Cr at best. Most had cheap plastic or stainless steel handles. Looking for a better metal and also slightly better F&F.

Shibazi F-208-2 (8CR13 core with cladding) (amazon)
+ most affordable option, though is actually their high end option in china for professional chefs
+ 8Cr13 seems to be decent enough, won't chip as easily as the harder japanese stainless steels
+ fast delivery from amazon
+ similar size/weight to forum favourite CCK 1303, 205mm long, 2.3mm thick, 330g
+ F&F looks decent in a youtube video review (youtube)
- the core steel only goes part way up the blade
- may have to upgrade to something better next time, but I already have beater cleavers (kiwi). This costs around $20 USD if purchasing locally in China

Deng TM-9080 (9CR18 core with cladding) (amazon)
+ only slightly more than the shibazi
+ both shibazi and deng are major manufacturers in China
+ slightly harder steel, 9Cr18 vs 8Cr13, maybe it doesn't even matter enough
- shorter but heavier and thicker, 180mm long, 3mm thick, 370g
- this price is approaching the CCK 1912 or lower cost Japanese chukabocho options


$70-$100
CCK 1912 (some kind of stainless, similar size to 1303)
+ the carbon steel version is a forum favourite
- the Shibazi F208 is similar at half the price
- mystery stainless steel (can it get sharp and stay sharp?), is the stainless is shibazi better?

Masahiro TS-103 (link)
+ Almost same cost as CCK stainless
+ Much better stainless steel on paper. MBS-26 stainless steel, which is supposedly a slightly cheaper version of VG10
+ monoblock
+ super light 195mm long, 1.6mm thick, 270g only. Maybe I should be looking at TS-203 at 2.5mm, 380g?
- F&F looks plain for $90

Sakai Takayuki Stainless Cleaver (amazon)
+ Hopefully better steel than the China cleavers
- Mystery steel


$120-$150
Gesshin Stanless (Gesshin 220mm Chinese Cleaver with Western Handle)
I don't know much about this, and it doesn't list what stainless steel is used either. Saw it in another thread.

Tojiro F-921, VG10 (Tojiro's site)
+ VG-10 steel
+ F&F looks good
+ Easy to flip on ebay if I don't like Tojiro is a pretty recognizable brand
- Full size at 225mm long, 2mm thick. Why is it so darn heavy at 480g?


$220
Sugimoto CM3040
+ lots of forum members seem to have this as their favourite
+ small is good for home use
+ other forum member's feedback on mystery stainless steel seems good
- most expensive option
- used to be available for $140 or lower a couple years ago. Maybe I'll revisit this when it goes to $150 or lower, or is it still worth it at $220? I almost bought from a Japanese vendor at $175 shipped but they cancelled it saying it was sold out. My wallet was saved

 

[deskjockey]

I'm finding the Sugimoto CM-4030 to be a bit pricey for what it is. Sure it is a very good knife that is well regarded. For $140, I think it is a solid choice for many but, at >$200 I think it is simply too expensive.

I own a Masahiro that was purchased prior to the Covid19-Coronavirus-Wuhanvirus etc. craziness. At less than $100 USD to my door, I find it to be a great option.

The Gesshin options from JKI are what tempt me today. The price and quality are very good. And, availability from JKI is a bonus too!

A Nakiri though is what I find myself using the most. I really love my Santoku and Gyuto too but, the Nakiri is the one I find resting on my cutting board and the one I use dicing Serranos, Onions, etc. for various dishes. The small nimble size works well for me cooking normal quantities of things. The larger 'scooping' ability of the Chinese cleaver is the one thing I miss most when the Nakiri is in my hand.

The cleaver really excels for me with large onions, squash, etc. but, normally I am generally working with smaller items where the Nakiri is appropriate.

 

[jwpark]

CCK 1912 is overpriced. I bought one from a chinese restaurant supply store in Monterey Park, CA for <$30 , mind you this was about 10 years ago. The steel was a bit soft, but nor a bad small cleaver. Plus, i wont buy anything from CKTG given their history.

Masahiro TS-103 seems like the best buy to me. The MBS-26 steel is pretty good, very similar to VG-10, and its a thin blade.

One thing to watch is the cleaver size. You seem after a smaller cleaver. The Gesshin & Tojiro are much bigger. Took me some time to get used to a bigger cleaver.

 

[jwpark]

CCK 1912 is $60 + shipping at Action Sales, didn't know the did online sales.

 

[Noodle Soup]

I've always liked my CCK 1912 better than my 1303. But then I also like the larger 1302 better than the 03. I have the Shibazi but have not used it too much. No major negative feelings about it. I use a Sugimato No. 7 a lot for heavy work but the 4030 I bought is still in the box. Too small for a Chinese cleaver, more like a large nakiri

 

[dafox]

I bought a Sugimoto 4030 from Rakuten, I went there just now to see if they are still available, but Rukuten Global market has closed, is no longer available

 

[deskjockey]

Yes, I tried to use Rakuten Global to buy one without success. One vendor had them at the time but, they could not process a USA based credit card.

Now, there are a lot of markups for things that are relatively cheap in the home market. As a result, I moved on to other brands.

 

[Rangen]

I use my CM4030 a lot. Its smaller size is actually a plus for the typical chop-chop-chop for turning veggies into slices, not only because of lighter weight, but also because it is less tall, so a bit easier to be precise and even, because the handle is closer to the edge. It's a great cleaver. Mine was $135 new, though. I'm surprised that it has increased so much in price. At $135, it was a no-brainer. At $220, it's a stretch, but if the size works for you, as it does for me for a lot of things, and if you want stainless, so are not tempted to stretch further and buy the wonderful Sugimoto No. 6, it's hard to imagine that you'd regret the purchase.

I went through a lot of cleavers before I found happiness with Sugimoto. Didn't like the handles on some; didn't like the excessive curve to the edge on others, couldn't get an edge I was happy with on some, and some I just never liked and I couldn't tell you why. The Masahiro was one of the latter.

 

[tostadas]

I'm particular to round handles on my Chinese cleavers. I'd say grab the Shibazi and not worry too much about hardness. You can easily steel or sharpen it up before use.

If you're curious about the steel or any other info on the Gesshin, shoot an email to Jon at JKI. He is very good about responding to inquiries like that.

 

[tubaroo]

I bought a Sugimoto 4030 from Rakuten, I went there just now to see if they are still available, but Rukuten Global market has closed, is no longer available

Yeah, even the cheapest on Rakuten local Japan website is around US$162, plus shipping I figure around $30 and it's still going to end up around $190. Doesn't seem worth it when it was under $140 just a year ago.

 

[tubaroo]

I'm now leaning towards the Masahiro TS-103 since I can buy it for around $60 shipped. Seems like an upgrade compared to the Shibazi F208 for only $20 more.

Plus the Masahiro (1.6mm, 270g) is lighter and thinner than the ShiBaZi (2.3mm, 330g). Though I admit, I personally like the look/round handle style of the Shibazi more.

 

[Keith Sinclair]

Got rid of my carbon CCK's when retired. Carbon would get rusty seeing limited use at home. Struck out on several cleavers until found Sugimoto 4030 on Rakutan some years ago. Think paid around 120.00 for it honestly can't remember.

Do remember the Masahiro, didn't like handle at all, & it chipped like crazy. Maybe if I kept it longer would get past fatigued steel and chipping. Didn't like the cleaver anyway so got rid of it.

For me home use 4030 is perfect. I know several cooks who use them at work. Maybe Noodle Soup will give you a good deal on unused still in the box.

 

[tubaroo]

I've always liked my CCK 1912 better than my 1303. But then I also like the larger 1302 better than the 03. I have the Shibazi but have not used it too much. No major negative feelings about it. I use a Sugimato No. 7 a lot for heavy work but the 4030 I bought is still in the box. Too small for a Chinese cleaver, more like a large nakiri

Yeah @Noodle Soup let me know if you want to free up some funds for other purchases , I can take it off your hands.
Or any other forum members who have a new one or lightly used one in USA

Either way I'll probably decide and purchase on Monday.

 

[Colorado_cutter]

I got intrigued by the Shi Ba Zi cleaver and just ordered one to try out. Hey, I voted for it, after all! I figure it might be an upgrade to my Tsubazo stainless cleaver. I really like the Tsubazo overall (got it for $13, so there's definitely bang for buck, but seems they go for more now, whether the vendor we shall not name or elsewhere). Nice flat profile, seems to stay decently sharp for a good while, easy to sharpen.

But I'm not in love with the handle on the Tsubazo. It's a bit slippery. And the metal ferrule rattles. That doesn't hurt anything, but it makes the cleaver feel cheap. The Shi Ba Zi should be a bit bigger than the Tsubazo, but I got the 207 mm length rather than the larger one, because I already have an Ashi Hamono carbon full-sized cleaver. I'd been thinking I'd pick up the Sugimoto 4030, but if the price has gone up that much, that isn't going to happen.

 

[dafox]

I got intrigued by the Shi Ba Zi cleaver and just ordered one to try out. Hey, I voted for it, after all! I figure it might be an upgrade to my Tsubazo stainless cleaver. I really like the Tsubazo overall (got it for $13, so there's definitely bang for buck, but seems they go for more now, whether the vendor we shall not name or elsewhere). Nice flat profile, seems to stay decently sharp for a good while, easy to sharpen.

But I'm not in love with the handle on the Tsubazo. It's a bit slippery. And the metal ferrule rattles. That doesn't hurt anything, but it makes the cleaver feel cheap. The Shi Ba Zi should be a bit bigger than the Tsubazo, but I got the 207 mm length rather than the larger one, because I already have an Ashi Hamono carbon full-sized cleaver. I'd been thinking I'd pick up the Sugimoto 4030, but if the price has gone up that much, that isn't going to happen.

Let us know about the non stick surface on the Shi Ba Zi.

 

[BazookaJoe]

I've been using this Huiwill VG10 cleaver as my all around kitchen knife for the last 4 years (until I got my first gyoto, a Kurosaki Hammered R2 240). It's good, especially for the price. Relatively thin and about 335 grams. The other cleaver is supposed to be M390, and is much heavier, which I needed for more severe chopping tasks.

US $74.75 35% OFF|HUIWILL brand luxury damascus kitchen knives Japanese VG10 carbon steel kitchen chef cleaver/chopper knife with micarta handle|damascus kitchen knife|knife japanesechopper knife - AliExpress

US $71.25 5% OFF|Yeelong 8

 

[Keith Sinclair]

Don't cut anything hard with VG10 cleavers. My softer carbon steel CCK's Medium for lobsters & Kau Kong Chopper for Ginger Chix. platters at work.

Bought a fairly thick VG10 Tojiro over one pound blade had been using it to cut frozen fruit. Cut some bone in chix thighs for curry stew chipped the blade. My Kau Kong Chopper no problem.

 

[tubaroo]

Saw this youtube video of a vietnamese guy comparing the CCK 1912 and Shibazi F208-2, I don't understand vietnamese but it's nice clear shots from all angles. They're almost identical in length, height, and profile. But the shibazi is slightly thicker at 2.4mm vs the CCK 1912 at 2.0mm.

 

[MowgFace]

I got a semi stainless one from the wokshop for like $15. To save on shipping though I ended up with 2 semi stainless and 3 carbon lol

 

[Hz_zzzzzz]

Saw this youtube video of a vietnamese guy comparing the CCK 1912 and Shibazi F208-2, I don't understand vietnamese but it's nice clear shots from all angles. They're almost identical in length, height, and profile. But the shibazi is slightly thicker at 2.4mm vs the CCK 1912 at 2.0mm.

The CCK in that video looks like a 1902 to me, which is a thicker "Cai Dao" versus 1912 being a thin slicer. I have the Shibazi F208-2 in that video and it is much thicker overall than the 1303 I have.

 

[tubaroo]

Ok, so I was planning on only getting one cleaver. But I've since picked these up:

• Sugimoto CM4030
• CCK 1912, Small Slicer
• CCK 1401, Kau Kong Chopper
• Shibazi F208-2, another Slicer (still on a slow boat from China/Aliexpress)

 

[tubaroo]

Current state of cleaver collection:

 

[cotedupy]

Excellent work!

I'd be interested to hear how the Sugimoto compares to HK / Chinese equivalents. And whether you think it's worth the extra $.

 

[Rangen]

I'd be interested to hear how the Sugimoto compares to HK / Chinese equivalents. And whether you think it's worth the extra $.

Spoiler: it is.

The cleavers I bought on Shanghai St in Hong Kong are perfectly functional, but I never seem to want to reach for them, with the excellent Sugimotos around. Except for that huge one that's more of a specialized-purpose item.

 

[spaceconvoy]

I feel oppositely I've come to dislike my thicker, heavier Sugimotos (I have a #6 carbon and 4030 stainless), and have been reaching more and more for my CCK stainless slicer. Feels like the ultimate laser, with just the right amount of heft behind it. After using it for a while my Sugimotos feel unwieldy.

I'm interested to hear how the Shibazi compares once it arrives - battle of the stainless slicers, head to head. I've been tempted to get one to try myself, but feel like I'd hate that ribbed handle.

 

[mlau]

I'm a cleaver connoisseur....and probably spent over $800 on Chinese cleavers.

FWIW, I think the Japanese cleavers sorta miss the point of Chinese cooking. Handles tend to suck. Blades tend to be too hard, fragile and chippy...albeit very sharp. Ergos and balance tend to be off.

A cleaver must be really durable, and endure the abuse of being smacked on ginger, garlic, etc. It must be able to finely mince herbs/meat/tofu, and still be able to finely slice a tomato. It must be able to handle a full session without losing a workable edge. It must be light in the hand, and perfectly balanced for an entire day's work (or your hand gets tired).

Of your choices, I'd go with Shibazen. I've handled my friend's one, and it's satisfactory.

FWIW, I haven't handled a Sugimoto in years. With my custom Calton Chinese cleaver, I don't really see the need for it.

 

[tostadas]

The CCK in that video looks like a 1902 to me, which is a thicker "Cai Dao" versus 1912 being a thin slicer. I have the Shibazi F208-2 in that video and it is much thicker overall than the 1303 I have.

How is the sharpenability of the steel F208-2? Can it take and hold an edge well? Some of my family have really cheap "San Han Nga Kongmoon" all metal cleavers that run around $15 in chinatown, and I have been unable to get what I'd consider a good edge on any of them.

 

[Hz_zzzzzz]

How is the sharpenability of the steel F208-2? Can it take and hold an edge well? Some of my family have really cheap "San Han Nga Kongmoon" all metal cleavers that run around $15 in chinatown, and I have been unable to get what I'd consider a good edge on any of them.

F208-2 uses the Chinese 8cr steel which has 0.8% carbon and takes an ok edge and holds it for a decent amount of time. It is considered one of Shibazi’s premium offerings along with 9cr, compared to their 3cr, 4cr and 5cr knives. The grind of this knife is on the thick side. And the heat treat is on the soft or tough side though. Maybe hrc 56-58.

If you want a thinner “slicer”, their 4cr forged slicer is a very thin true slicer. That steel is unbelievably easy to sharpen and gets an ok edge in seconds, but it won’t hold it. It costs <10 dollar though.

 

[Keith Sinclair]

Only two use these days as home cook.
The CCK Kau Kong Chopper used for Ginger Chicken banquet platters at work. Only carbon cleaver I kept. Still find uses for it.
Struck out on several stainless vegetable cleavers. Some were terrible coming from CCK carbons used at work. Cai Dao for lobsters, 1303 light. Have had the Sugimoto about 5 years works fine for me.

I like stubby round Chinese handles on cleavers, they just feel right. Also the grinds . The front loaded carbon Kau Kong is softer steel can be sharpened many times back to good cutting edge.
It is thick spine & tapers all the way to the edge.
Early this year planted quite a bit of grass. Bought flats of Zorsia grass 3X4:foot. Cut into strips with hand sickle. Sharpened Kau Kong &; Tojiro heavy cleaver. The Kau Kong worked way better putting strips of grass on 4X4 wood. Cut into plugs one stroke with Kau Kong. Going through grass, roots, and dirt. After a couple 3X4 foot flats of grass would resharpen it.

 

[Qapla']

Current state of cleaver collection:

How would you compare them from your experience using them?