Buying advice Japanese knife, Gyuto

[Alpri223]

Hello everyone,

I´m a 27 year old hobby-cook and currently located near Munich. This forum drew my attention because of my intention to buy a first "real" Japanese knife. My upcoming trip to Japan could be very advantageous to this.

LOCATION

What country are you in?
- Germany, traveling to Japan next month

KNIFE TYPE

What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
- I think a Gyuto would serve me best at the moment


Are you right or left handed?
- right handed


Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
- Japanese handle, preferred Octagon


What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
- 210 mm (but I´m open to any other suggestions as well)

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
- As i want to buy a traditional Japanese knife, it will be non-stainless.



What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
-300 €/350 USD/40000 JPY




KNIFE USE

Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
- At home, nearly every day once for dinner prep


What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
- Mainly slicing/mincing vegetables, slicing poultry, sometimes trimming crustaceans as well



What knife, if any, are you replacing?
- Got several Zwilling-knives, mainly from the "Five star"-series, e.g.:
https://de.zwilling-shop.com/Kueche...okumesser-FIVE-STAR-ZWILLING-30047-181-0.html


What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
- Slicing, rock chop


What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
- Better cutting behavior (in terms of sharpness)
- Good food release
- Nice optical appearance



Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
- Nice wooden handle (preferred dark), preferred with some horn/stone as well


Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
- It should be usable out of the box
- It should be „easily“ usable, since I’m no pro when it comes to cutting techniques



Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
- To be honest, i haven´t thought about this property yet.




KNIFE MAINTENANCE

Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
- Bamboo


Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
- At the moment: no.


If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)
- Yes, well I have to, when owning a non-stainless-steel knife.


Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
- Yes




SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS


As I’m going to visit Japan next month, I want to take the opportunity and buy the knife there. Do you have special recommendations, where? I’m visiting Tokyo, Kyoto, Osaka, Kanazawa, Takayama.

Thanks!

Best wishes!

 

[McMan]

With your criteria in mind (durable, able to rock, Damascus, nice handle), I’d suggest a Tanaka Damascus. Checks all these boxes and is a great first j-knife. You could upgrade the handle if you wanted to also.
http://www.knivesandstones.com/tana...uto-210mm-with-custom-octagonal-ebony-handle/

 

[McMan]

Oooops... posted this before I saw you wanted to buy in Japan. Tanaka is still a good option, but there will be other options in Japan and others will be familiar with knife shopping in Japan. Have a nice trip!

 

[rebornhj]

at that price range I highly recommend Toyama.
It's blue steel extremely sharp and edge retention is one of the best.
I cut sushi rolls, fried item, vegetables, and even cut whole salmon with it and I rarely sharpen it.

 

[JaVa]

Yoshikazu Ikeda is a terrific option. Over all a well made sturdy middleweight with great heat treat, convex grind and superb distal taper and tip.
http://www.epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=93389

 

[parbaked]

Use your Google-fu for more details...

Tokyo:

1. TFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTF
2. Knife shops around Tsukiji Fish Market
3. Kappabashi district
4. Kiya shop in Tokyo Midtown because it's a pretty and pricey shop and Tokyo Midtown is a cool place.

Kyoto:

1. Shigeharu Knife shop on Horikawa Dori, 500 meters south of Nijo Castle.
2. Aritsugu Knife shop in Nishiki Market. Touristy but they speak English and you'll likely visit Nishiki anyway
3. Hayakawa Hamonoten is another knife shop about 500m from Nishiki Market

Osaka

1. Tower Knives: owned by a Canadian....check out youtube for a look at his shop.
2. Sennichimae Doguyasuji is the Kitchenware street with a couple of large knife shops that speak English and sell Sakai made knives. It's near Dotonbori, which you should also see.
3. You can day trip to Sakai and see the knife museum and some showrooms, but I've never bothered. If you have a Japan Rail Pass it's easy!

The fish market in Kanazawa is awesome...lot's of stalls and small restaurants to eat at and you must do Keiten sushi.

 

[Ochazuke]

I really like tsukiji masamoto. Theirs was my first real yanagiba and it’s still one of my favorites to use. They also make some rock solid gyuto. Their English is not so great, but maybe you could find a translator? There’s nothing super fancy about them, but they’re a staple in professional kitchens in Japan and I think they’re pretty underrated in the western market.

 

[Alpri223]

Thanks for all the replies!
So the shops around Tsukiji aren´t tourist rip-off? Maybe I rephrase my question a bit: Are there special properties to look after when I´m buying? Just in case of serious language barrier...

I think the Masamoto-knives would do an excellent job for me, but as you said, the handle is quite classic. At least at the models which I have seen so far...

What edge retention (with "normal" use) is usual at knives of this category?
TF means?

 

[Alpri223]

Tokyo:

1. TFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTFTF
2. Knife shops around Tsukiji Fish Market
3. Kappabashi district
4. Kiya shop in Tokyo Midtown because it's a pretty and pricey shop and Tokyo Midtown is a cool place.

What means TF? Teruyasu Fujiwara?

 

[parbaked]

Yes...you can visit Teruyasu Fujiwara shop near Meguro and select your knife. If TF is there, he will engrave your name on your knife, if desired.

 

[Alpri223]

I did some research regarding TF (Teruyasu Fujiwara) and I found out, there seem to be some quality issues. Since I am not a knife-pro I don´t know what to look after for when buying in the shop, meaning I would buy a knife with a minor/major quality issue at worst case...

Quite a few times i stumbled over Toyama-knives (as rebornjh mentioned), which seem to have excellent quality and being at the upper end of my budget. Do you think that would be an option as well?

 

[ThinMan]

Toyama makes excellent knives. Not sure about visiting or how to purchase them in Japan.

 

[Alpri223]

Has anybody else information where to buy Toyama-knives in Japan?

 

[Benuser]

A few points to be considered:
Bamboo is very hard to the edge. Some say it is the glue, others the silica.
Rock-chopping is no fun for the edge either. You may try to develop 'guillotine and glide', à forward motion, with a much softer contact with the board, spread over a longer area.
A 210 Japanese knife is a bit short, and often a bit narrow. It has it's place, but as a one and only I would prefer a 240mm. Still very agile compared to any Zwilling.
Think about maintenance. Any blade will dull. To put it mildly, factory edges have a very low priority with Japanese makers, as any user will put his own one on it before first use. Ask the retailer to sharpen it for you.
So at least, you have a decent edge you may use as a reference for your own sharpening.
You will need sharpening stones. A fine or very fine for frequent touching up, coarser stones to start a full sharpening with when touching up only doesn't work anymore.

 

[Chef Doom]

If you plan on buying your first "real" Japanese blade, than you absolutely MUST purchase a single bevel. Everything else is Western hybrid imitation to fool communists and yankees.

Yanagiba, deba, or usuba. Go authentic or go home.

 

[Benuser]

To whom is not familiar with Mr Doom's contributions: traditional Japanese single bevelled knives are highly specialised. One knife for one task.
The idea of the chef's knife as developed in France end 19th century is rather one for almost all tasks. The Japanese gyuto is the further development of the French chef's knife.
Traditional single bevels make no sense if not used in traditional Japanese cuisine. Their use in any other will complicate life beyond any imagination.

 

[Ochazuke]

Yeah, I only recommend traditional knives for those who already have some idea of what they are and really want one.

If you’re looking for a well-made general purpose Japanese kitchen knife, it’s best to go with a double bevel for sure.

 

[Alpri223]

As I´m back from my trip to Japan, i wanted to share my recent purchase with you. I ended up with this Santoku made from Aogami steel. Can anyone tell me what the Kanji on the blade says? According to the shop owner, it was made in Echizen.

 

[JBroida]

retailer in kyoto... minamoto no hisahide

 

[Chef Doom]

Pay no attention to Mr Broida. The kanji ACTUALLY READS "For Domestic House Wifes With Ungrateful Husband And Children"

Amazing how many words they can fit in a couple of kanji.