Can I Get by with one 800 Grit Stone?

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hijackn

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Hi!

Compared to a lot of people here I have a very simple collection of knives. We mainly use a few carbon steel Masamoto gyutos, stainless steel A G Russels, and a western stainless steel Wusthof chef's knife. I also have a few woodworking chisels. These are what I need to be sharpening. I have one stone, a Naniwa Choosera 800 grit, and a leather strop. I've done very limited sharpening on my own, but have watched a lot of videos to try to develop basic knowledge, mainly from Bob Kramer and the Burrfection guy on youtube.

My question is this: to get decently sharp knives/chisels, is just an 800 grit stone and a leather strop sufficient? I'm not going for perfection but I'd like good performance at the standard of a typical home chef. If you were to add another affordable stone or two, what would you recommend? I'm open to anything (wet or diamond) but would love to not spend a huge amount on them. I do browse through the threads here and they are helpful but, to be honest, they can be a little confusing/overwhelming for those of us who are not very knowledgeable or are more amateur knife owners.
 
You can live with just that stone for sure. Your carbons will be so much better with one more higher grit stone before the leather strop. Depending on budget I’d get one of these: Naniwa Pro 2k, 3k, or Shapton Pro 4K/Shapton Glass 4K. What I’m finding is that is more than enough until Yanagiba territory (or other single bevel non board contact knives).
 
The Chosera 800 is an amazing stone, and that plus a strop is certainly all you NEED. If you want to make the edges sing, well, either go become @stringer good*, or go for something in the 2K 3K range. I love my Chosera 3K (Naniwa Pro is basically the same thing - more expensive, no base, no nagura, thinner), and you will find a lot of love for various Shopton stones around here.

I can get my knives quite sharp at 1K (Chosera 1K), but I definitely prefer the results with polishing at 3K. And the Chosera 800 is pretty universally regarded as better than the 1K.

* There are a huge number of amazing sharpeners frequenting this board, he's just the first one that came to mind.
 
Chosera 800 is great for a single stone setup. Its fast, slow wearing, and feels great.

Its also very versatile. You can create a verity of edges on it. It responds very well to varying pressure and stroke orientation ( edge leading, edge trailing ) when you finish up. Also try the different micro bevels you can create with a verity of pressures and orientations.

Great stone.

p.s. The Chosera 800 is closer to a 1200 or 1500 than an 800 grit wise.
 
First, I wouldn't watch too much Burrfection. Try these:

Japanese Knife Imports
Big Brown Bear
Jef Jewell
Dean O (sporting and pocket knives mainly but I think he did some chisels)

And many others.

Second, wood working is a different animal with different needs. As I recall you want very smooth, polished edges on some tools and rough toothy ones on others. And you may well be having to repair blunt, dented, etc. edges.

I would not lump all my knives and wood tool needs into one. For your knives you're probably okay but I'd do separate research on the tools. There's a lot of YouTube videos out there on those specifically.
 
Checkpure said:
You can live with just that stone for sure. Your carbons will be so much better with one more higher grit stone before the leather strop. Depending on budget I’d get one of these: Naniwa Pro 2k, 3k, or Shapton Pro 4K/Shapton Glass 4K. What I’m finding is that is more than enough until Yanagiba territory (or other single bevel non board contact knives).
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Awesome thank you I will probably do just that. Is there an easy way to think about what the difference would be between either a naniwa pro 2k, 3k, or the Shapton pro 4k in terms of finishing of the sharpening process after the 800 grit naniwa I already have?
 
HumbleHomeCook said:
First, I wouldn't watch too much Burrfection. Try these:

Japanese Knife Imports
Big Brown Bear
Jef Jewell
Dean O (sporting and pocket knives mainly but I think he did some chisels)

And many others.

Second, wood working is a different animal with different needs. As I recall you want very smooth, polished edges on some tools and rough toothy ones on others. And you may well be having to repair blunt, dented, etc. edges.

I would not lump all my knives and wood tool needs into one. For your knives you're probably okay but I'd do separate research on the tools. There's a lot of YouTube videos out there on those specifically.
Click to expand...

Thanks that makes sense, I've been considering a diamond set of stones for the woodworking. Good to know you'd lean in that direction as well.
 
hijackn said:
Awesome thank you I will probably do just that. Is there an easy way to think about what the difference would be between either a naniwa pro 2k, 3k, or the Shapton pro 4k in terms of finishing of the sharpening process after the 800 grit naniwa I already have?
Click to expand...

I like to go 1k (naniwa 800 polishes a bit finer than its grit rating), and then just strop on the others (10, 5, 4, ... 2, 1.)

For a full progression, I have 400 (form burr, deburr), 1k (form burr, deburr), strop on 3k suehiro ouka or 4k shapton glass, then strop on Jnat.

The med grit stone is where you remove metal. Deburr at this stage. Everything else is just polishing/refining that bevel.

For what it's worth, I don't like toothy edges, and I would find a 1k edge annoying in kitchen use on my carbons. I like carbons because they can get ~sharp~ You can live with just one stone, but IMO it's a better use of money to get the performance out of the steel you paid for.


One caution about diamond plates for edges is that since the diamonds are fixed to the metal, they don't move around like conventional waterstone abrasive does and therefore they "cut" deeper.
 
hijackn said:
Thanks that makes sense, I've been considering a diamond set of stones for the woodworking. Good to know you'd lean in that direction as well.
Click to expand...

I don't know enough here to give recommendations on what is best but if you go with diamonds, Ultra Sharp from Best Sharpening Stones are a good value. Well made and comparably reasonably priced. For your needs you might even be able to go with 6" but that's for you to decide.
 
nakiriknaifuwaifu said:
I like to go 1k (naniwa 800 polishes a bit finer than its grit rating), and then just strop on the others (10, 5, 4, ... 2, 1.)

The med grit stone is where you remove metal. Deburr at this stage. Everything else is just polishing/refining that bevel.
Click to expand...

FWIW, this is what I do 95% of the time. 1K for thin, edge, deburr, polish, then polish and micro on the higher grits. Granted, I'm a rank amateur.
 
hijackn said:
Thanks for the recommendation. Just to clarify, what's the grit you'd recommend if I was going to get one other stone to complement the 800 grit naniwa?
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probably the 2k naniwa pro, really like that one it finishes at about 3k in practice.
or the 3k naniwa pro, but those are kinda expensive. the 2k is expensive too for what it is to be honest.

a good combo is the shapton pro1k and 2k. one coarse one fine. all you need really.

another good do it all combo is the glass 500 and the glass 3k.

but all these will be very good imo. the shaptons are cheaper though. i also recommend getting a rubber stone holder to get the stone up from the counter and so it stays put.
 
hijackn said:
Awesome thank you I will probably do just that. Is there an easy way to think about what the difference would be between either a naniwa pro 2k, 3k, or the Shapton pro 4k in terms of finishing of the sharpening process after the 800 grit naniwa I already have?
Click to expand...

the naniwa pro2k will be almost identical in finish to the 3k glass.
 
hijackn said:
Awesome thank you I will probably do just that. Is there an easy way to think about what the difference would be between either a naniwa pro 2k, 3k, or the Shapton pro 4k in terms of finishing of the sharpening process after the 800 grit naniwa I already have?
Click to expand...
You don’t have to worry about the nuanced differences between those four stones. It’s all whatever your budget can accommodate at that point IMO. I love my Pro 2k and can do all the fun tricks off of just that and a carbon.

I had to try the Pro 3k due to rave reviews and it’s just a touch more refined and feels better.
Light pressure and technique is going to be the focus Id imagine
 
hijackn said:
Thanks for the recommendation. Just to clarify, what's the grit you'd recommend if I was going to get one other stone to complement the 800 grit naniwa?
Click to expand...
The 800 will definitely get you through especially for the Russels and Wusthof, the 800 is the base of my sharpening, if you want to add another to bring up your Masamoto's you can't go wrong with the chosera 3000.
 
The answer to your question is: yes. 800 only is doable for getting a knife sharp, but:
You simply miss a whole lot of sharpness for your carbons if you stop at just 800.
 
I'm not an expert on woodworking tools, but for all I know, a much higher finish should be ideal. There are some members here who are far better informed, maybe one of them will speak up with a recommendation ?!

An idea for this might be the Sigma Select II 6000, which should be fast enough to jump directly from the Chosera 800 ...

For your kitchen knives made of carbon steel, depending on the purpose, I would go for a finish between 2000 - 4000 grit ... of course, only the 800 and leader is also possible, but you are giving away so much potential of your knife ... that's a shame !
 
hijackn said:
... I also have a few woodworking chisels. ...
Click to expand...

These will benefit from a higher polish than most people need on a kitchen knife. I'll leave the knife suggestions to the many you've received already, assume that will suffice as your starting stone for the chisels, and suggest at least one more from there for your chisels. Shapton Pro are true splash & go, come in nice boxes that'll serve as a holder, and are used very successfully by many wood workers. That said the last I checked the Suehiro Rika 5K was showing up on Amazon US for really cheap (relative to other good stones. We had confirmation here this is the same stone as the Cerax 5K, if prices have shifted.) 5K is a little low for what most woodworkers shoot for on chisels, but the polish from this stone is entirely adequate for any task. Especially so if followed with careful stropping.
 
If your chisels are just for handyman-style home use, then 800 is fine and you might even need a 140 or 320 after banging them up. But if you actually use them for precision woodworking, then you’d want to get them to around 8k, and some woodworkers go even higher. When I was into woodworking I’d go to 8k on my chisels and planes (with a sharpening jig).

For the knives, 800 is very usable but leaves a lot on the table as others have said. If you’re not chasing high levels of performance you can certainly stop there.
 
FWIW - I was talking to my cousin the other day who is a woodworker and furniture maker and he uses Shapton Glass, and recommended 1k / 6k for chisels. SG will be particularly useful for chisels because of the slow dishing, though I'd hazard a guess he probably uses his chisels more than most, so that might be less of a factor for others.
 
Yes, you may use only a Naniwa Pro 800. The end result will correspond to 1200 according to the Japanese standards JIS.
Two remarks, though. Depending on the steel, it isn't all that easy to get fully rid of the burr without using a finer stone. In some cases it seems almost impossible, at least to me. Good luck with completely deburring VG-10 or R2 on the 800.
I wouldn't like to miss finer stones for daily maintenance. When just maintaining — not performing a full sharpening — I never go as low. 2k is my lowest. Usually 8k or 4k are all I need to revive an edge. Having to go that low every time means wasting material.
 
Benuser said:
... Having to go that low every time means wasting material.
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So true!!! I was amazed at the beginning of my sharpening "career" when I saw how much height I was loosing on my knives. I am now much more careful, I still start for for dull knives with Chosera 1000 but I am taking real care to raise just a little burr.
 
You can get by with the 800....AND adding a finer stone will yield a more refined edge, which will be more durable, and enhance touch ups in between regular sharpening.
I would add something in the 4k - 6k range, and DaveB's Rika in BST would be an excellent choice.
In a perfect world, if you held your knife at the exact same angle every stroke when sharpening, there would be no difference in sharpness between an 800 stone and a 5k. The angle is the angle. But under a microscope the edge of the 800 will be seen as coarser, and more raggedy, or toothy. Going up to the next grit will smooth that edge out. Think of the surface and texture of 200 grit sandpaper vs 2000 grit sandpaper .
Because an 800 edge is more toothy (vs 5000) it may do a better job starting the slice of a ripe tomato, but a worse job making a sashimi slice in raw fish.
Also, because the 800 is toothier, it will be prone to tearing (literally) and edge decay more rapidly, resulting in a edge that gets duller sooner. So...YES, you can live with one stone. And adding one will enhance the experience.
BTW - noe of this applies to chisels, I know zip about them.
 
800 is inadequate for chisels, even for rough work. I sharpen mine on a Bester 1200, followed by a 3k and a 6k grit stone (I have a collection, depends on my mood) and if I plan to do any paring, they get some time on my Kitayama.

For knives, you can keep them sharp with an 800 grit, but carbon steel will feel much sharper with some higher grit stones.

I think I'll do a sharpening session today once I get some office work done -- everything is getting dull.
 
inferno said:
probably the 2k naniwa pro, really like that one it finishes at about 3k in practice.
or the 3k naniwa pro, but those are kinda expensive. the 2k is expensive too for what it is to be honest.

a good combo is the shapton pro1k and 2k. one coarse one fine. all you need really.

another good do it all combo is the glass 500 and the glass 3k.

but all these will be very good imo. the shaptons are cheaper though. i also recommend getting a rubber stone holder to get the stone up from the counter and so it stays put.
Click to expand...

Great thank you. Based on this thread I'm leaning towards getting either this: https://www.**************.com/nach200grshs.html

or this: https://www.amazon.com/Chosera-000-Grit-Stone-base/dp/B000EBFWY4

Sounds like either stone would be a good complement to the Chosera 800, right?
 
The Chosera 3K is brilliant and a perfect compliment for the Chosera 800 in my book. It's expensive but it wears really slowly, it's nice and thick, comes with a big burly nagura and a base (which you probably can remove with a heatgun if you don't like it).
 
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