Caramelized onions

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kennyc

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Disclaimer: I am a well-intentioned, but modestly skilled home cook. Mostly I just want to play with knives :D

My recent kicks have been to practice a few fundamentals - but do them WELL. Right now is caramelized onions. Usually in a home setting I'll do 2-3lbs but am always disappointed by the yield when it gets consumed much too quickly. But why does it always take SO. DAMN. LONG. And is there any way to hurry the process? What method does a commercial operation use?

I think I understand the principles - sweat down the onions, get them to release their water, reduce out the water, caramelize leftover sugars without burning. (right?)
In a recent effort to make my time "worth it", I sweated down 12lbs until they all fit in my wok (15" - large surface area = quick evaporation?)
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Accidentally made onion soup - I had horrible visions of what I would do with 5L of hot onion liquid! It "stalled" in an emulsified liquid form for almost 2 hours
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Finally starting to dry out
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Finished product
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To summarize though - from first hitting the pan to completed product in the bowl was just over 4 hours. Does that sound reasonable?
 
kennyc said:
To summarize though - from first hitting the pan to completed product in the bowl was just over 4 hours. Does that sound reasonable?
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It should take less than an hour to caramelise onions. I suspect your problem here is that you were trying to do do too much at once for the size of the wok. Work in smaller batch sizes and limit the depth of the onions once they have cooked down initially to no more than about ½ inch, and you'll get there much more quickly.
 
Use a pressure cooker, that’s the fastest most effective way.

Other tricks you can try but they will alter the taste and texture include adding sugar to catalyze the reaction and baking soda, but that will turn the onions into mush.
 
Michi said:
It should take less than an hour to caramelise onions. I suspect your problem here is that you were trying to do do too much at once for the size of the wok. Work in smaller batch sizes and limit the depth of the onions once they have cooked down initially to no more than about ½ inch, and you'll get there much more quickly.
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Thanks all for the replies.

At the risk of sounding obvious, using smaller batch sizes for quicker time will yield less product though - will I still get an overall time saving for the total amount of finished onions?
 
If you spread across 3 pans and do them all at once then it’ll save time
 
I have done it that way. I don’t think you did anything wrong. In a wok, you are only heating a small bottom area. Had you used a large sauté pan or two, you would have had a better ratio of heat in (hot bottom) to volume to surface area for evaporation to occur.

I have been known to cook down 5 lbs at a time, then freeze the resulting precious gold.
 
Bensbites said:
I have done it that way. I don’t think you did anything wrong. In a wok, you are only heating a small bottom area. Had you used a large sauté pan or two, you would have had a better ratio of heat in (hot bottom) to volume to surface area for evaporation to occur.

I have been known to cook down 5 lbs at a time, then freeze the resulting precious gold.
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the burner is a double-ring wok burner - rows of flame are available (simultaneous) at 2", 5", and 8". Would a flat bottom pan still make a difference?
 
I have done 5 gallon batches of shrimp creole when I worked at New Orleans Takeout, which recipe called for half of the onions to be carmelized as a first step.

If done stove top, widest flat bottomed pan we had, such that there was a fairly thin layer of onions after initial sweating. Then kept an open "well" in center of pan while continuing to saute and stir so any liquid that collects had a place to evaporate from.

To REALLY make a big batch I used a Groen steam kettle, essentially a big pot with a pressurized steam jacket around the bottom and most of the way up sides. Had to watch it and stir carefully but this went relatively quickly.

The advice to use a pressure cooker sounds intriguing, if any have experience, could they expand on how they have done this?
 
Bert2368 said:
To REALLY make a big batch I used a Groen steam kettle, essentially a big pot with a pressurized steam jacket around the bottom and most of the way up sides.
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holy crap this thing's not kidding around
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*sigh - yet another thing I want to add to my kitchen
...along with a hobart, robotcoupe, and deli slicer (am i allowed to admit those last two on a knife forum? :eek:)
 
kennyc said:
the burner is a double-ring wok burner - rows of flame are available (simultaneous) at 2", 5", and 8". Would a flat bottom pan still make a difference?
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I think you can get more heat into a clad wide flat bottom pan without burning the onions.
 
The wok doesn't seem like it's hot enough. Go hotter and stir more frequently.

Pressure cookers don't allow for evaporation, so you're going to have to reduce all the water out after you're done cooking them. Runs a very high risk of overcooking. And you can't look inside to check the level of caramelization while cooking. I prefer to cook conventionally in the widest flat bottom pan I can.
 
kennyc said:
the burner is a double-ring wok burner - rows of flame are available (simultaneous) at 2", 5", and 8". Would a flat bottom pan still make a difference?
Click to expand...
I agree with ben. You need more surface area. I like to overly crowd the pan also, kind of like you did but less extreme. The crowding helps create sort of an oven effect :rolleyes: and lets them cook gently. I keep the heat up and stir more often and then bring it down in stages. Ive seen others who just let it go at a more steady heat for longer time. Both work but i like how i do it better.
 
I have an 18" paella pan. I can do 6-7 lbs in it in bout an hour. You don't have to worry about high heat, until water starts to evaporate (once you hear sizzle, lower the heat) . You can try baking soda, it'll have you a lot of time (I tried once) but it does affect the flavor.
 
Tried again this evening, a bit less onion, and less fat as well
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The result:
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I started it for a while with the lid on to sweat the water out of the onions - mostly did it ptolemy's way: high heat until the water starts to sizzle

In any case, I have about 25lbs onions left - i'll give it another go in a few days.
 
Jville said:
I agree with ben. You need more surface area. I like to overly crowd the pan also, kind of like you did but less extreme. The crowding helps create sort of an oven effect :rolleyes: and lets them cook gently. I keep the heat up and stir more often and then bring it down in stages. Ive seen others who just let it go at a more steady heat for longer time. Both work but i like how i do it better.
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to some degree, the crowding & "oven effect" is what I was trying for - the entire batch started changing color at the same time very evenly instead of having scattered bits of brown amongst the original white onion once the caramelization started
 
kennyc said:
to some degree, the crowding & "oven effect" is what I was trying for - the entire batch started changing color at the same time very evenly instead of having scattered bits of brown amongst the original white onion once the caramelization started
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thats not really a thing. evaporation is the only way. don't go by color.
 
panda said:
thats not really a thing. evaporation is the only way. don't go by color.
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without sounding confrontational (tone is hard to convey in written text). Color isnt an indication of completed caramelization (as opposed to "raw" sugars in the white bits of onion) and the malliard reaction?
 
When you have an overcrowded pan and you're getting more liquid than you would like, I often find it useful to strain the contents and add back to the pan, and slowly reintroduce the removed liquid as the cooking process continues. It's not ideal, but it might work to help you with your mass onion caramelisation operation.
 
My mother used to deep fry thin sliced onions in vegetable oil. They were delicious, crispy, and it didn't take long. Wasn't the same as the soft, creamy, sweet versions you are trying to achieve, but as an accompaniment for meat or vegetables or as a topping for burgers, it can't be beat.
 
Oshidashi said:
Chef Jean-Pierre has an interesting take on caramelized onion (or "onyo"), but it does take a couple of hours:

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Interesting. He removes all the liquid after sweating, notes how sweet it is and saves it for stock, all good there, I certainly wouldn't waste it. I will try his long pre-browning sweat and see for myself.

Then he adds back sugar. ***, already had plenty of sugar but just removed much of it with the juice after he sweated them.

I usually add some balsamic vinegar to carmelized onions for use with steaks, he does go a lot heavier than I do- But I certainly am not using 17 YO balsamic.

The total amount of vinegar, salt and sugar he is using is WAY over the top compared to mine but hey, no one pays me to cook for them (anymore). He must know what the customer wants.
 
I usually make my caramelized onions with cut-up raw onions, butter and oil slowly in a dutch oven stirring away every couple minutes and scraping the fond with a wooden spatula along with the moist onion. Continuing until it gets to the depth of color I think is reasonable for the amount of time I am willing to spend on it.

I have a black garlic fermentation machine. Thinking about using it to ferment a batch of black onions and adding them mashed up to some cut-up raw onions inside a large pot. Then sweating this mixture for 2 hours at low heat to speed up the process. And then caramelizing the resulting mixture in a dutch oven with some butter and oil as previously described.

I normally don't add anything else to the caramelized onions I make. Do I really need to add S&P and balsamic vinegar and sugar to make it taste better?
 
tchan001 said:
I normally don't add anything else to the caramelized onions I make. Do I really need to add S&P and balsamic vinegar and sugar to make it taste better?
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I wouldn't add the vinegar, salt and pepper to made ahead and frozen carmelized onions unless I knew the only dishes they were going into would benefit. Cuts down on versatility, can always add them later if wanted.
 
I think you're putting yourself at a disadvantage by doing them in a wok. I've not done it but would think that keeping the onions in the liquid at the bottom of the wok would keep them wet longer while the ones on the side dry out.

My pan of preference for either wholesale or retail amounts of carmalized onions is a rondeau. The thicker flat bottom would be more conducive to browning them evenly and they can be started in an oven for a low maintenance operation. Some caution is in order, a rondeau will burn you at least once every session if you're careful. If you don't show respect it will keep burning you until you do.
 
I agree, personally I would love to pick up a nice, thick bottomed WIDE pan such as a "rondeau". My wok really doesn't cut it for large quantities like this, I've had similar slow/poor results while trying to do enough caramelized onions to serve guests at a larger steak BBQ/cook out.
 
if i have a lot of onions to carmelize, i use the oven and my dutch oven. dont forget to spray the vessel with some non-stick spray
 
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