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IsoJ

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its one thing to make traveling distances part of the equation, but if you exclude that ... US is more diverse in terms of variety and experimentation. If you look at history and tradition, then you can’t beat Europe just because of Germany, Belgium an Czech Republic alone ...
I see and get your point. I do pay more attention to the tradition. I am sure there are lots of new experimental and wild beers today that can be hit or miss. It sure is interesting to see what from those experimental ones are around in 10-15 years from now.
 

Corradobrit1

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IPA is a European beer, invented by the Brits.

It’s a real beer, and it’s really good. Of course there a funky versions with Grapefruit and sh**, but a regular IPA only uses the basic beer ingredients just like the other “perfected” beers 🤷🏼‍♂️😉
There's a reason why the group CAMRA exists in the UK. 'Real' Ale FTW
 

spaceconvoy

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IPA is a European beer, invented by the Brits.

It’s a real beer, and it’s really good. Of course there a funky versions with Grapefruit and sh**, but a regular IPA only uses the basic beer ingredients just like the other “perfected” beers 🤷🏼‍♂️😉
Are the British Isles part of Europe 🤔 I seem to remember them passing a few laws to the contrary. But the origin is unimportant.

If beers were knives, then central European pilsners would be like Sanjo double bevels. Deceptively simple, perfected to near-uniformity, with subtle but important differences between each one. IPAs are like the crap on CKTG, competing for attention with more and more ridiculous bells and whistles each year. I'm not even talking about the ones with weird flavors, even regular IPAs with no additives tend to be overly intense and funky to me, like a flavor arms race.
 

applepieforbreakfast

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Are the British Isles part of Europe 🤔 I seem to remember them passing a few laws to the contrary. But the origin is unimportant.

If beers were knives, then central European pilsners would be like Sanjo double bevels. Deceptively simple, perfected to near-uniformity, with subtle but important differences between each one. IPAs are like the crap on CKTG, competing for attention with more and more ridiculous bells and whistles each year. I'm not even talking about the ones with weird flavors, even regular IPAs with no additives tend to be overly intense and funky to me, like a flavor arms race.

You know, they say that as we age, bitter things tend to become more palatable. Dark chocolate, Brussels sprouts, etc. Maybe you're just not there yet. Maybe try one again in a few years? Start with a Pale Ale, and gradually work your way up, because I can definitely understand an IPA being overwhelming right off the bat.
 

spaceconvoy

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It's not the bitterness I mind, its the background sweetness that the bitterness is trying to conceal. I prefer a drier beer. And I'm not sure why I would want to 'work my way up.' To what exactly? That's like saying start with a pepperoni pizza then work your way up to anchovy and pineapple. Some people just prefer a really good margherita.
 

alterwisser

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Are the British Isles part of Europe 🤔 I seem to remember them passing a few laws to the contrary. But the origin is unimportant.

If beers were knives, then central European pilsners would be like Sanjo double bevels. Deceptively simple, perfected to near-uniformity, with subtle but important differences between each one. IPAs are like the crap on CKTG, competing for attention with more and more ridiculous bells and whistles each year. I'm not even talking about the ones with weird flavors, even regular IPAs with no additives tend to be overly intense and funky to me, like a flavor arms race.
It doesn’t Matter what they decide on the isles, they are part of Europe. Will be until new continents form millions of years from now.

And quite frankly: you pointed it out, you’re talking about personal preferences. It’s your right to prefer mass produced Pilsner or lager, but doesn’t make it a “better” beer. An iPa or pale ale can be much more complex and yes, an acquired taste. But the same can be said for a lot of stuff, like Kimchi.

Mass produced European beers are like tilapia. And some just prefer grilled sardines 😉😜
 

orangehero

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I'm not even talking about the ones with weird flavors, even regular IPAs with no additives tend to be overly intense and funky to me, like a flavor arms race.
I'm not as hip as I used to be on beer, but that phase passed at least 5 years ago.

If you've never had a Steam Beer while sitting on the pier in San Francisco you don't know what you're missing.
 

orangehero

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There's a reason why the group CAMRA exists in the UK. 'Real' Ale FTW
The irony is that CAMRA owes a lot to the beer renaissance in the USA, despite the fact that USA macrolagers took over in the first place.
 

parbaked

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If you've never had a Steam Beer while sitting on the pier in San Francisco you don't know what you're missing.
First house I owned in SF was in Potrero Hill above Anchor Steam. I could smell the hops in the morning when I walked the pooch.

Beer is nuts in the Bay Area. Most people I know don't even buy beer at a liquor store anymore.
They just go to their favorite craft brewery and pick up cans or growlers (64 oz jugs) of their favorite brews.

These breweries all make a wide range of beers from lagers to ales to IPA and Belgiums. They all offer flights so folk can taste a few and find what they like. They are all pretty passionate about what they do and the ingredients they use.

One interesting thing is that these breweries are not limited by restaurant of bar regulations as long as they only serve the booze they make. As such they can let in kids and dogs and food trucks etc. They've become the gathering place for people who want to get together and can't be bothered to entertain at home. Our favorite Taiwanese noodle & dumpling pop-up is housed in a brewery.
 

Corradobrit1

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The irony is that CAMRA owes a lot to the beer renaissance in the USA, despite the fact that USA macrolagers took over in the first place.
Not sure about that. I would say Fosters *pi$$* water is more influential. CAMRA is almost 50 years old afterall. How many US micro breweries were up and running back then, let alone getting noticed outside the country.
 
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orangehero

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Not sure about that. I would say Fosters *pi$$* water is more influential. CAMRA is almost 50 years old afterall. How many US micro breweries were up and running back then, let alone getting noticed outside the country.
It's true a lot of overlap. I don't know what CAMRA was doing 50 years ago so I can't comment on that. I'm saying no one would care without the renewed passion and interest sparked by US brewing culture both as consumers and producers.

Anyone else love The Beer Hunter show with Michael Jackson? I wish they would re-release it.
 
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Noodle Soup

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IPA is a European beer, invented by the Brits.

It’s a real beer, and it’s really good. Of course there a funky versions with Grapefruit and sh**, but a regular IPA only uses the basic beer ingredients just like the other “perfected” beers 🤷🏼‍♂️😉
But it tastes nothing like the over hopped B.S. they call IPA in the US. Each new brand tries to beat the last by adding even more hops. I would certainly go with the German, Austrian, and Cz lagers and dunkels before any of the US IPA's.
 

nwshull

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As a note American IPA is normally considered a different style than the British one at this point. Its based on the british IPAs which was in many ways a obsolete style used for preservation of the ale on a long journey to India. However, its most certainly not the same, the name was simply used because it was available due to lack of use. By contrast most American IPAs, especially the West Coast variants, are meant to be drunk soon after their release. From the original US IPAs, there are now many different styles with quite wide variants- session, New England style, East Coast, West Coast, Double IPA, ridiculous triple IPA, fusion IPAs with other styles.
 

AT5760

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Is it your impression that all American craft beers are hop bombs? I'm not sure that was true a decade ago, and it is certainly not true now. The New England-style hazy IPAs are much less hop forward. Many breweries are looking more to Belgian-style beers, exploring sours, and saisons.
Also, I'm not sure that the HP wars analogy flies. If anything, I'd compare it to a preference over modern day Ferraris vs 1960s E-Types. Both have a lot to offer, but they are very different cars.
 

alterwisser

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But it tastes nothing like the over hopped B.S. they call IPA in the US. Each new brand tries to beat the last by adding even more hops. I would certainly go with the German, Austrian, and Cz lagers and dunkels before any of the US IPA's.
there are thousands of IPA’s in the US. Some are indeed just out to outdo others with hoppiness.

Others are outstanding and better than most or any British IPA...

But it’s a taste/preference thing. Difficult to argue of course. For me it’s a situational thing: if I’m at a football game I want something “easy”, if I’m at a beach I want an ice cold lager, I’d never down an IPA.

To me IPA is a Fall beer.

have you tried a freshly brewed New England style IPA?
 

Noodle Soup

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Is it your impression that all American craft beers are hop bombs? I'm not sure that was true a decade ago, and it is certainly not true now. The New England-style hazy IPAs are much less hop forward. Many breweries are looking more to Belgian-style beers, exploring sours, and saisons.
Also, I'm not sure that the HP wars analogy flies. If anything, I'd compare it to a preference over modern day Ferraris vs 1960s E-Types. Both have a lot to offer, but they are very different cars.
Well, I live in the NW in a state that actually grows a lot of those hops. Go down the isle of my local grocery store and you find there is practically nothing (not counting Bud, Coors etc) but local IPA's. Why one brewery needs to produce 3 or 4 different IPA's is beyound me. And yes I like some of the Belgian styles that starting to come out. A few even taste like Belgian ales! Dick's Crystal Ale is very good. But try to find a really good American Dunkel outside of a beer specialty store. None in my area for sure. I usually go with one of the Mexican brews when I want that.
There maybe some great New England style IPA but it doesn't reach here, probably like most of ours don't go back there.
 

orangehero

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IPA's are at the forefront of style development, in part because there are intensive projects to breed new varieties of hops that are exciting with new flavors and aromas not seen before. There's also a renewed focus on local produce and freshness of IPA plays a massive role in the experience. There's only so much you can do with malt and yeast. Additionally, from a business and production perspective, IPA's are a relatively easy style for a small, perhaps less technically capable and experienced local brewery can make, as the hops will cover a lot of otherwise apparent process flaws.
 
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Noodle Soup

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IPA's are at the forefront of style development, in part because there are intensive projects to breed new varieties of hops that are exciting with new flavors and aromas not seen before. There's also a renewed focus on local produce and freshness of IPA plays a massive role in the experience. There's only so much you can do with malt and yeast. Additionally, from a business and production perspective, IPA's are a relatively easy style for a small, perhaps less technically capable and experienced local brewery can make, as the hops will cover a lot of otherwise apparent process flaws.
Exactly, as a long time home brewer, extra hops can cover a lot of flaws in a brew. Of course, top fermenting ales don't require the cold temperature aging bottom fermenting lagers do, making them more cost effective for the "micro brewers." I used to only brew lagers in the winter when I could age them in the unheated barn.
 
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