Catcheside Cutlery 2012 pre-order profiles and options.

[WillC]

Hello all i'm pleased to announce my profiles and options for pre-orders in 2012. :biggrin:

I have worked from the profiles of the damascus Petty/Suji and Gyuto, I recently finished.

I have also drawn a flatter version of each profile. And an extra profile for the Gyuto working to a customers request for a Masamoto type profile but deeper at the back.

240mm Gyuto Profiles.

1. Is the profile used on my W's pattern Gyuto and the mono-steel/amboyna I have made recently.
2. Follows the shape of the Masamoto tip, except it is deeper at the back than Masamoto at 55mm.
3. Is a Flatter version of the profile with a lower tip.

300mm Suji profiles.

1. Matches my recent W's pattern Suji profile.
2. Has a lower tip, flatter profile and curved transition from spine to tip.

180mm Petty Profiles.

1. Matches the w's Damascus Petty
2. Slightly Flatter/lower tip version.

I'm hoping these will be a starting point to tweak for each custom order.
I would love to hear feedback on the profiles even if you are not in the market for a knife at the moment.

In terms of Grind and thickness/taper. I'm over the moon with the examples I have done in damascus. I believe there is a nice balance of convexity and thinness which performs. The only change I would like to make is to go slightly thicker on the spine above the choil but have the taper just as dramatic as on the example pieces. I will add target thicknesses later.

I am planning three different steel options.

Mono-steel in 01
Blue paper 2 core with simple damascus cladding.
Full Mosaic damascus in en42j and 75ni8.

Same high quality fit and finish on all knives.

Handle options are wa only. Standard pricing includes a choice of stabilized wood spacers and blackwood ferrules. And take it from there if upgrades are requested in terms of Damascus end caps or some of the very pricey woods/Mammoth etc.

Prices are now up on my blog here

I would like to thank you all for your help here and look forward to making some superb kitchen knives for you in 2012.

Have a great New year everyone.

 

[jmforge]

Nice!!! I still say that at those prices, the W damascus blades are a great deal considering how much forge welding goes into making them.

 

[WillC]

Cheers Joe, i'm finding it a bit complicated pricing different damascus. I'm sure it will get easier as I go along. Should be ok on the W's pattern and similar as I'm quite happy with the look of the pattern "stretched out a bit" So I can get the most of the material by forging closer to size under the power hammer.
That feather pattern was a different matter, but I'm sure I'll work out a few more tricks with practice.
Right i'm off to stand in a barn for several hours to see the New year in with lots of cider, hopefully some music. Happy New Year everyone!

 

[Aphex]

Just a quick critique before i head out. I would say that the overall profile of the masamoto clone is very good, i would just lower the height at the heel from 55mm to arround 50mm for the 240 gyuto, then increase the height as the knife gets longer. I think 55mm at the heel would be better on a knife 260mm+ long.

Happy new year.

 

[EdipisReks]

are these prices going to stay for a while? i have a wedding, then a honeymoon, then a new digital-to-analog-converter for my stereo, then a Heiji, to pay for, so it would be a while before i could get one, but i'm very interested in the Blue #2 knife. i could turn the #2 profile into something similar to my Shig pretty quickly, which would be perfect.

i agree about reducing the height at the heel on the Masamotoesque #2. the Masamoto KS is perfect as is, for what it is, and should be cloned exactly, if it's going to be cloned.

 

[tk59]

Looks good to me, Will!

 

[Dave Martell]

You're off to a good start on the new year Will.

 

[WillC]

Thanks all, I had a very nice New year, feel a bit better now
"Aphex
Just a quick critique before i head out. I would say that the overall profile of the masamoto clone is very good, i would just lower the height at the heel from 55mm to arround 50mm for the 240 gyuto, then increase the height as the knife gets longer. I think 55mm at the heel would be better on a knife 260mm+ long."

Great, yes that makes sense, I'll rework profile 2 a little so the blade height is 50mm at 240mm and rising from there. That should bring back that slender look somewhat. Yours will be the first full size knife in a damascus/blue steel combo, I'm pretty excited

"EdipisReks
are these prices going to stay for a while? i have a wedding, then a honeymoon, then a new digital-to-analog-converter for my stereo, then a Heiji, to pay for, so it would be a while before i could get one, but i'm very interested in the Blue #2 knife. i could turn the #2 profile into something similar to my Shig pretty quickly, which would be perfect.

i agree about reducing the height at the heel on the Masamotoesque #2. the Masamoto KS is perfect as is, for what it is, and should be cloned exactly, if it's going to be cloned. "

Yes absolutely I'm fine with these prices and will only review them towards the end of the year, unless something drastically changes with materials supply. Just let me know when your ready. If you want something based on a Shig profile that would be fine too.

Thank you Tinh and Dave, looking forward to having a spark flying 2012 with KKF:spin chair:

 

[EdipisReks]

can you by chance give the blue knife a plain cladding, instead of damascus? i love the kitaeji finish on my Yoshi, but it's really a pain to keep looking pretty compared to my kasumi Shig.

 

[WillC]

Yes I can do you a price on that. On some of my test pieces I used en9 for the cladding, medium carbon something like 0.55%C- blue paper core with just a slither of 15n20/75ni8 on the weld line just to bling it up a bit.

 

[EdipisReks]

send me a quote on that for a 240mm cutting edge (250-255 ferrule to tip), plain handle

 

[WillC]

Great stuff, If anyone else would like a plain clad option, just let me know.

 

[TB_London]

Just wanted to add that Will's heat treat of blue 2 is pretty much spot on IMO. I have a blue core honesuki he HT'd for me and it goes through chicken bones with no sign of any edge damage, even though I've been being intentionally rough to see how far I can push it. In comparison my hattori hd vg-10 honesuki has microchipped with a much more obtuse bevel and with me being less rough with it

 

[WillC]

Thanks Tom, yep its amazing stuff, on testing I was secretly hoping I would find it overrated. The thing that amazes me is what it takes on such a thin edge. Edges which you would not normally dream of boning out a joint or pushing through chicken bones. I'm finding 01 very very good as well, the only catch is i'm finding the 01 much harder on the hones at the same hardness so I like it a tad lower at 60/61 where it also takes a great deal of abuse on a fine polished edge. The 01 doesn't feel as sharp but it is, It does look a tad smaller grained than the blue on the grain shots, which makes sense. Might have to try some 01 on a razor for those smooth edge characteristics.
The digital gear is really helping in terms of confidence in a more precisely repeatable HT now I know where I want it.

 

[echerub]

I'd probably be lookin' at plain clad blue as well

 

[stevenStefano]

I'd be interested in plain clad blue also. Perhaps put a price on your site for it? Your prices seem pretty reasonable, particularly for those in the UK, for knives I get from the States I generally add on about $100 for shipping and Customs and all that. Usually a little less for Japan. A couple of questions. Will all the handles be the same as those in the pictures? Another one. Since you offer gyutos in a range of 220-260, do the knives get bigger in terms of their overall dimensions as well as length? For example, would a 260 be taller than a 240 or just longer? If that's a dumb question just say

 

[WillC]

Cool, thanks Len.
Hello Steven, yep I'll update the blog, these will be custom knives so my profiles are a starting point. Handle length and tweaks to the profile according to your personal taste are all doable. The only restriction is on depth of the blade really, I can only get blue paper steel in 30mm wide strips at the moment. I will be able to forge some width on the billets when welding but probably no more than 52mm.
i'm looking at using pure nickel as a carbon barrier, but would add a few quid. The en9/blue paper tested very very well anyway.

 

[WillC]

I've updated a plan clad/blue core option to my pricing on the blog. I will make the first batch of these knives in February. All those who are confirmed I will check your final profile before commencing. Anyone considering getting in on the first batch let me know. I have a little more work to do with the stainless clad and stainless damascus clad before I can add price options. There could be stainless options in a batch 2, please let me know if that appeals. i can give you an idea of pricing and get an idea of interest and numbers. Many thanks, looking forward to getting on and making some great knives in february.:biggrin:

 

[oivind_dahle]

WillC: Why not go from Blue Paper to 52100?

 

[WillC]

Olvind, Blue paper 2 fits the bill nicely. My decision to use it was based on destruction and practical testing. I really love this steel. Plus the ht parameters work perfectly with my damascus. It is presently a pain getting it in anything other than small bars, but I'm working on that. I've nothing against 52100 if I can find a reliable source I would certainly test it as an alternative especially if it ended up easier to get in whole sheets. But Blue 2 is a great steel in my opinion, takes a great edge at around 62hrc easy to sharpen and is very resistant to chipping or folding. I have been using a test petty, with a very thin edge to bone out joints, go through chicken bones. The steel takes it easily even on an edge designed for vegetables. What is more it stays sharp through the process. This impresses me quite a bit.

 

[Eamon Burke]

52100 is a great steel. I have loved every blade I've used with 52100(a skewed sample, since they've been from various ABS knifemakers). But Blue #2 is a knife steel, and does at least as good a job as 52100. I am certain that if AS was being made in the USA, every Tom, Dick, and Harry would be using it for their knives, just like in Japan.

 

[Adagimp]

Awesome looking line-up. I particularly like your flexibility in allowing for a few different profiles for each type. That's progressive thinking.

 

[WillC]

Thanks folks, all the materials are in to get on with the first lot of orders and a few backorders hopefully next week will weld up the laminates all things allowing.:doublethumbsup:

 

[WillC]

Right I have some final tweaked profiles for approval before I get too far with the billets and blanks.


David, long awaited feather duo special order.
240mm Suji. Height 38 mm, Choil 12mm
210 Gyuto, Height 48 mm, Choil 12mm

Aphex 250 mm Gyuto, Masamoto-esc with a little more height
Height now 53 mm, choil 15 mm.

Sean 240 mm Feather Gyuto, same profile as my last one.
Blade 245 mm, Height 49 mm, Choil 15mm.

Judd special order Suji.
Blade 300mm, Height, 46mm, Choil 15mm.

Let me know if we're looking good here, i'll leave plenty of wiggle when I rough out the blanks anyway.

Thanks all.....Will

 

[WillC]

Some updates here.
I am working on a website for Catcheside Cutlery and this has prompted me to reorganize a few things. My ordering process is a little overcomplicated and I will hope to make this simpler by giving per cm pricing over the range of materials offered. I will be dropping simpler mosaic damascus. All Mosaic will be "high end" as all the patterns I make now are as time consuming as the feather pattern and those are the ones people seem to like. The random type patterns are quicker and remain priced as such.

I will also make the system so for custom orders you choose your wood from Burlsource, this is billed to you and sent to me. I'm finding customers like to choose their own wood and i'm finding it hard to afford large batches to provide a good choice.

Those are the more major changes. There will be a slight overall increase in prices affecting the longer knives, I will have these prices public soon on the website, but will give plenty of warning and will not affect anyone currently talking to me about something or about to...
It will only be an increase of something like £40 on the very top end pieces and the main handle block will not be included. In general there will be more of a tax on larger knives.

These will be the total list of specs available.

Mono Carbon - 01
Mono Stainless - Probably RWL-34
Carbon san mai - 01/BP2
Stainless clad- 304- carbon core - 01/BP2
Simple Damascus San mai - 01/BP2
Stainless damascus- 304/430- carbon core - 01/BP2
Carbon Mosaic Damascus - 01/15n20
Carbon mosaic with a blue paper edge.

A custom order really is just that, If you know just what you would like, I am fine to work on that by example or explanation or tweaks to one of these profiles.
But as a starting point I have singled out a few of my favorite profiles I have worked on rather than having a different choice for each type of knife. I have added a couple of new ones, a parer and my Petty/suji profile which I think has proven itself in the kitchen.

This is a 300mm Suji Profile

240mm Gyuto

220mm Funayuki - esc profile

210mm Petty Suji

180mm Petty

100mm Parer

I would love to hear any thoughts on this, As I say increases will be minimal at this time and with plenty of warning. Also your thoughts on the more straight forward range of profiles I have selected as a starting point.

Many thanks
Will

 

[Aphex]

I think it's only sensible to start charging by the cm. It will make it easier to more accurately price each piece which will work better for you and the customer. I would give the price for basic models and then show examples and prices for some of your upgrades. Show a photo as an example of your work. For example, show photographs of the knives to explain your profiles. Show photos to explain your different damascus or what san mai is. I think this will have more effect than drawings. Opening up an account with Burlsource is pretty obvious for the reasons stated. Perhaps creating a page to show off available woods that you have available would be an idea. Not everyone will want to buy from another source than you.