Chinese Cleavers: Single Bevel v.s. Double Bevel?

[altaiga]

This is a question for the knowledgeable KKF members regarding the grind of Chinese cleavers. I have handled a fair amount of Chinese cleavers, and noticed that some old Chinese cleavers have asymmetric single bevels compared to more contemporary ones, which all seem to have symmetrically ground double bevels. The single beveled Chinese cleavers, slicers or choppers, perform very well in terms of both cutting and food release. I wonder what Chinese cleavers nowadays are still made with a single bevel, and what motivated the paradigm shift from single to double bevel in Chinese cleaver grind? One benefit of a double beveled cleaver is that it can by used by both left- and right-handed users. So one can imagine that for mass-produced knives, double bevel makes economic sense, in terms of simplifying both production and inventory management. But from a purely functional perspective, what are the pro and cons of single v.s. double beveled cleavers?

 

[azn_knives_4l]

This is a question for the knowledgeable KKF members regarding the grind of Chinese cleavers. I have handled a fair amount of Chinese cleavers, and noticed that some old Chinese cleavers have asymmetric single bevels compared to more contemporary ones, which all seem to have symmetrically ground double bevels. The single beveled Chinese cleavers, slicers or choppers, perform very well in terms of both cutting and food release. I wonder what Chinese cleavers nowadays are still made with a single bevel, and what motivated the paradigm shift from single to double bevel in Chinese cleaver grind? One benefit of a double beveled cleaver is that it can by used by both left- and right-handed users. So one can imagine that for mass-produced knives, double bevel makes economic sense, in terms of simplifying both production and inventory management. But from a purely functional perspective, what are the pro and cons of single v.s. double beveled cleavers?

This is really interesting. My dad sharpens as asymmetric single with a zero grind and there's that Lau guy on YouTube that also sharpens asymmetrical but with a secondary. My dad learned from his time in cabinetry so that plays a role in it and I'm keen to learn more about the variations and traditions.

 

[blokey]

Any examples? I has some old Chinese cleavers from 70-80s, some of them are asymmetrical but not hardly single bevel

 

[altaiga]

This is a question for the knowledgeable KKF members regarding the grind of Chinese cleavers. I have handled a fair amount of Chinese cleavers, and noticed that some old Chinese cleavers have asymmetric single bevels compared to more contemporary ones, which all seem to have symmetrically ground double bevels. The single beveled Chinese cleavers, slicers or choppers, perform very well in terms of both cutting and food release. I wonder what Chinese cleavers nowadays are still made with a single bevel, and what motivated the paradigm shift from single to double bevel in Chinese cleaver grind? One benefit of a double beveled cleaver is that it can by used by both left- and right-handed users. So one can imagine that for mass-produced knives, double bevel makes economic sense, in terms of simplifying both production and inventory management. But from a purely functional perspective, what are the pro and cons of single v.s. double beveled cleavers?

I should add that it is not just the bevel, the entire blade was ground somewhat asymmetrically. So maybe single vs double bevel is not the correct terminology. So please correct me if someone knows a better terminology to describe such distinctions.

 

[altaiga]

This is really interesting. My dad sharpens as asymmetric single with a zero grind and there's that Lau guy on YouTube that also sharpens asymmetrical but with a secondary. My dad learned from his time in cabinetry so that plays a role in it and I'm keen to learn more about the variations and traditions.

Yes, many pro Chinese chefs intentionally grind their knives in this direction so create the said asymmetry. It seems to increase the smoothness of the cut and food release at the same time.

 

[azn_knives_4l]

Yes, many pro Chinese chefs intentionally grind their knives in this direction so create the said asymmetry. It seems to increase the smoothness of the cut and food release at the same time.

It's not subtle at all. My dad's knives have the best food release of any knife I've used and I'm pretty sure it's because of this. Kinda wow with ginger and it's so obvious that even non-knife people can tell.

 

[blokey]

I should add that it is not just the bevel, the entire blade was ground somewhat asymmetrically. So maybe single vs double bevel is not the correct terminology. So please correct me if someone knows a better terminology to describe such distinctions.

An oval asymmetrical grind like these?

 

[altaiga]

An oval asymmetrical grind like these?
View attachment 332492View attachment 332493
View attachment 332496

Yes, like these. The cutting side is straight, and the other side is curved, which helps with food release.

 

[azn_knives_4l]

An oval asymmetrical grind like these?
View attachment 332492View attachment 332493
View attachment 332496

Exactly like these, ime, yeh. It's variable, ofc, and they don't come like this from quite a few makers.

 

[blokey]

Yes, like these. The cutting side is straight, and the other side is curved, which helps with food release.

Exactly like these, ime, yeh. It's variable, ofc, and they don't come like this from quite a few makers.

That’s old way of making them, most newer ones are mass produced, some are grounded on machine so they are symmetrical, I guess you can say it is cost saving and easier for left handed person

 

[altaiga]

That’s old way of making them, most newer ones are mass produced, some are grounded on machine so they are symmetrical, I guess you can say it is cost saving and easier for left handed person

Do makers today still make cleavers this way? For example, are the three cleavers in your posted photos all old knives or from contemporary makers?

 

[blokey]

Do makers today still make cleavers this way? For example, are the three cleavers in your posted photos all old knives or from contemporary makers?

The first one is from 东隼Dongsun, a brand of 百年利Bai Nian Li, their Damascus VG line is good, other lines are too thick. Rest is Sakai Kikumori Gokujyo and Mizuno No.1 cleaver. Modern Japanese ones Are still likely asymmetrical, Chinese ones depend on the maker. This 2 below is from Xinguo新国, the first one is an all purpose cleaver 斩切刀