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Chipped My Carter in Only 4 Days

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mr drinky

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So I got my 205mm Carter funayuki this week. At first the light weight (119g) threw me off, but I must admit that the light weight has grown on me a bit since then. I also like the short size. Since having a newborn in the house and doing the stay-at-home Dad thing, I find myself reaching for smaller knives these days. I'm not sure why, but it happens.

The knife was blistering sharp out of the box and could easily slice a dropped piece of thin advertisement paper in its descent. (Note: I did not take my clothes off to do this as Salty did.)

The contrast between the laminate/cladding and core steel is cool. The toothy patina edge looks similar to my hiro but a bit better.

So back to the chip.

I am making some stock for a carrot and mint risotto, and to make the stock I am chopping up a leek. So I slice the end of the dark stuff off and hit stone. Chip.

It isn't a bad chip, but a chip nonetheless. The worst thing was that it kept grabbing the cloth when I wiped the blade down. So after only a handful of hours of use, I chipped my Father's day gift. Oh well.

Strange thing is that it didn't bother me in the least bit. I guess I am just going to have to use the chip as an excuse to buy another knife ;)

k.
 

Tristan

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Dibs on the chipped knife at the buy and sell forums:razz:
 

Mattias504

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It always sucks to chip a knife. Especially a new one. Waaay back in the day when I got my first J knife ( a Shun classic 10"), I was prepping at work and there was like a staple or something in the cutting board that I didn't see and I put like 3 sizable chips in the edge. It was only like the second or third day of owning it. This was back when I was a rock chopper so it took a couple of cuts before I realized something was wrong...


How bad is the chip? Can you take a pic of it?
 

kalaeb

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Don't you have a new kick a sharpening station? No big deal, break out the stones, you know you want too.
 

Seb

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What's the hardness rating on that thing?
 

mr drinky

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Don't you have a new kick a sharpening station? No big deal, break out the stones, you know you want too.
Yeah, I do have the new sharpening station and that is probably why I didn't care as much. I repaired smaller chips on a shun and tosagata nakiri the other night. I had a beer and some knives, and when I looked up it was 3 am. My knives were sharper though.

I'll see if I can take a picture.

k.
 

Lefty

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Leeks are a-holes, and notorious for this...sorry about your luck, but I'm glad you're liking the knife!
 

heirkb

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Note to self, don't use Shig on leeks.
 

mr drinky

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What's the hardness rating on that thing?
I'm not sure about the hardness. This is a quote from his FAQ page:

"The knives should come in around HRC 63-64 after I heat them in a pine charcoal fire, quench them in water, then temper them over the open flames of the forge. I use no modern measuring device for temperature, etc. It is all done by eye and experience (and a silent prayer never hurts, either). I can only guess as to the HRC of each blade as they are all heat treated one at a time, by hand, without the aid of any modern devices."

With that said, couldn't he have bought one of Marko's two hardness testers? I find it a bit hard to believe that he doesn't know.

k.
 

rockbox

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MC just doesn't care. In his eyes, his knives perform, so it doesn't matter what the hardness is. Its just a number to him.
 

Lefty

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I like that attitude, actually
 

Lefty

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Well, to a point.
Sometimes we get too hung up on numbers and steel types, etc here. It's part of the fun for us, but I can see where Murray is coming from.
 

mr drinky

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Well, to a point.
Sometimes we get too hung up on numbers and steel types, etc here. It's part of the fun for us, but I can see where Murray is coming from.
That is true. I don't get too hung up on that stuff either. But I like when I accidentally ask someone at a kitchen store what the hardness of a knife steel is. The look they give me is priceless -- then I realize I am either a nerd or a douche bag.

k.
 

apicius9

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Leeks are a-holes, and notorious for this...sorry about your luck, but I'm glad you're liking the knife!
Hey, no flaming my favorite vegetable! :D But you are right, before I have them cleaned, I only use my Global utility on them. Once they are washed, I'll get out a real knife... Sorry to hear about the chip!

Stefan
 

Noodle Soup

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I once found a number of tiny chips in a new Carter knife I was using and complained to Murray about it. He simply sharpened them out and gave me the knife back. As I understood it, he considered a few small chips in the edge normal until you had broken a new blade in with a few trips to the waterstone.
 
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Lefty

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That sounds reminiscent of VG10. I have a tiny tiny chip in my edge, but it isn't affecting cutting ability, so I'll just get it out next time, on the stones. For mine, I'm not surprised. I've used it HARD since the day I bought it, basically.
 

Mattias504

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A lot of knives are chippy before you sharpen them. My Heiji gyuto chipped a bit before I sharpened it the first time. I was curious to see how it cut out of the box. It performed well but the "stock" edge was a bit weak. Sharpened it from 1k up and its never had those problems since.


I'm still curious to see how big this chip is.
 

Marko Tsourkan

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Chipping has to do with a heat treatment (blades in over 63RC hardness will be more brittle) and edge stability of a steel.

Traditional Japanese smiths (and Carter claims to be one) rely on eye to determine temperature of a heated metal (by color) before quenching. I would bet if you test for hardness a batch of knives from the same smith, you will find some variation in hardness.

My guess, many of these knives are over-hardened (not drawn to RC where they are more stable) and brittle at the edge, so a micro bevel or a less acute angle is required.

M
 

Lefty

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I think it's safe to say he is an unconventional Traditional Japanese smith.
I would think the edge and anywhere that is thinner on a knife would be hardened more than a thicker portion, based on heat transfer, so yeah, that makes sense.
 

Marko Tsourkan

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I think it's safe to say he is an unconventional Traditional Japanese smith.
I would think the edge and anywhere that is thinner on a knife would be hardened more than a thicker portion, based on heat transfer, so yeah, that makes sense.
I don't know if he water or oil quenches his blades, but I am pretty sure his HT is traditional (without using modern equipment) and without steel preparation and additional treatment that many Western makers do. He still manages to make decent knives and has quite a following. Cudos to him.

M
 

mr drinky

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My guess, many of these knives are over-hardened (not drawn to RC where they are more stable) and brittle at the edge, so a micro bevel or a less acute angle is required.

M
Before I used the knife, I examined it under magnification and there was a micro-bevel near the heal and towards the tip, but there was no micro-bevel in the belly. Also, the chip occurred where the laminate steel came all the way down to the edge (on one side), so I am wondering if the core steel was thinner in that area.

Sorry for the bad photo, but my good camera is my napping daughter's room.

k.
 

rockbox

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That ain't nothing. That's just a micro-chip. That's 10 minute on a Beston at most, and if you are MC, 5 minutes on a King 1K.

[video=youtube;IiYT3xPNkoE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiYT3xPNkoE[/video]

I thought you were talking more like this.

 

mr drinky

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Yeah, it's not that big. Like I said, the worst thing was that it kept snagging the wiping cloth. I'm just going to sharpen it like it wasn't there and let it come out on its own. I took a sushi course last weekend and you should have seen the chip on the instructor's suisin. He said he has been working it out for a couple years.

k.
 

Lefty

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Drinky, strop it on a Finishing type of stone to lose the grabbiness of the chip. Should be all good after that.
 

Lefty

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Rockbox, you'd better just send that to me and I'll make sure nobody gets hurt! :)
 

rockbox

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That ain't mine. I haven't had a chip in over 3 years. I've noticed that if you sharpen your knife before you use it, chipping becomes a non issue. Sometimes I wish I had more chips because I have an addiction to power tools. When I was at Devins, I was thinking to myself, how would I get a power hammer and surface grinder into my 2 car garage and not piss off the HOA.
 

Lefty

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Say they're for your service dog?
 

jason

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I think it's safe to say he is an unconventional Traditional Japanese smith.
I would think the edge and anywhere that is thinner on a knife would be hardened more than a thicker portion, based on heat transfer, so yeah, that makes sense.
Murray heat treats before grinding, the thickness of the steel is the same. A customer examined the hardness on his neck knife and reported back that the finds from two areas on his knife were 63.6 and 63.3.

Murray heat treats in water.
 

Lefty

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Thanks for the info.
I figured he'd grind to 60% (or so) and HT, then finish grind. He must blow through belts!
It is a good way to keep warpage down (right Pierre and Butch?) and keep your hardness consistent.
 
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