Coarse stone for thinning

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G

Garm

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Hi everyone!

As the title says I'm considering my options for a coarse stone to be used for thinning, both monosteel stainless and clad carbon knives.
My coarsest stone is the JNS 300. I really like this stone, both in terms of feel and finish, but it's just too slow for doing serious thinning IMO.
I have used my Atoma 140 a little, but I just hate the feeling of grinding steel on diamonds.

I also tried out an Ohishi 220 stone, but no matter how long I soaked it the surface would dry out completely in just a few seconds.

Just to be clear, I have no illusions about a coarse stone in the 150-250 grit range feeling good or retaining moisture on the surface the way a finer stone would, but i'm hoping there are some better alternatives out there.

So to sum up, I'm looking for a coarse stone for some heavy lifting that cuts notably faster than the JNS 300 and that will keep lubricated for more than a handful of sharpening strokes.
I'm fine with both soaking stones and S&G, and would prefer something that is neither extremely hard nor extremely soft.

Some stones I have considered are:
-Imanishi/Bester pink brick
-JKI 220 stone
-Watanabe AI 220
-Sigma Power select II 240
-Lobster(Naniwa?) GC stones, there are several of them I think

Any experiences and opinions about these or other coarse stones you guys prefer are greatly appreciated:)

Thanks!
 
All 220 pink stones (Gesshin Bester, Naniwa, Watanabe, etc.) will be similar - some softer, some harder, but similar (most likely they are all made by the same company). I have Bester 220. This stone really is extremely thirsty - basically the water flows through it. To solve the problem with the endless thirst I have lacquered all sides and bottom of the stone. Problem solved. You can use any lacquer that after curing is water resistent. Once you lacquer the stone you want to permasoak it, as once lacquered it will take forever to dry.
 
I really enjoyed my sigma power 240, unfortunately it's almost completely worn down(maybe 5mm remain) it cuts fast and believe it it or not I can actually work up a little mud on it which helps a lot. I'd order another if tools from Japan wasn't such a hassle to deal with. I'll prob grab a pink brick from someone as a replacement when the time comes.
 
I am not fond of a pink brick. It disappears in a bliss but it does not feel like a lot of steel was removed.
For coarse thinning I really prefer Norton Coarse India (has it flaws tho) and for less coarse Shapton Pro 220 is doing an okay job.

@labor, what hassle did you experience? I ordered once from that site and did not have any issues. Sigma might be interesting to try.
 
Ruso said:
I am not fond of a pink brick. It disappears in a bliss but it does not feel like a lot of steel was removed.
For coarse thinning I really prefer Norton Coarse India (has it flaws tho) and for less coarse Shapton Pro 220 is doing an okay job.

@labor, what hassle did you experience? I ordered once from that site and did not have any issues. Sigma might be interesting to try.
Click to expand...

He took a real long time to get my order in the mail. Like, the order took a month or so to process with no explanation given. His products and prices are very nice I may give him a second chance, but I had a bad first impression. I wouldn't be surprised if it was an isolated incident.
 
I just ordered a couple of the sigma power #120 from him.

Will report back on time to post.
 
Subscribed. Got a Naniwa superstone 220 which does a job but not hasn't got enough weight to stay put in one place
 
I have had good results using the Naniwa 220 as a coarse slurry stone over slate. Material consumption is not an issue because I use the entire stone until there is nothing left, and the abrasive qualities of the Naniwa 220 are all I need to get the job done.
 
Does that not put a fair amount of wear on the slate stone?
 
Thanks for all the replies and input guys!

@Matus: That’s not a bad idea with the lacquer coating.

I have seen some youtube videos of people using the pink brick and there it seems to keep lubricated on the surface for a decent amount of time if you keep the motions going. But these could be slightly different versions of a pink brick and perhaps behave a little differently?
When you call it very thirsty, how often do you feel you have to add water? Does it keep moist long enough for mud to develop for example?
I’ve never managed this with the Ohishi. I was just left with dry dust on the surface after ten seconds and a sound that made me cringe.. I couldn’t seem to keep the mud «alive» no matter how quickly I added water.

@labor of love: The Sigma is intriguing. Very fast from what I hear, but I haven’t found too much info about it on the forums.
Do you find it extremely thirsty as well? From what I understand this stone has no binder material. I wouldn’t mind a little dishing if it’s fast and doesn’t need non-stop watering.

@Badgertooth: Thanks for the tip. I hadn’t even considered the superstone. Is that the one that’s called specialty stone now?
How’s the cutting speed on this one?

@Ruso: I have tried the Shapton pro 320 briefly and I tend to prefer stones that are a little softer than this.
I don’t know how the 220 compares to the 320 in this regard?

Thanks again everyone!
 
Look into the King Deluxe 300 from Stu. Its not a particularly enjoyable stone to use but it thins quickly with nice scratch pattern and decent feedback and is splash go. Very large size, stays flat and doesn't clog even with stainless cladding.

For some reason it doesn't get a lot of love on the forum, but I think that's because its new.

http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=1669
 
@labor of love: The Sigma is intriguing. Very fast from what I hear, but I haven’t found too much info about it on the forums.
Do you find it extremely thirsty as well? From what I understand this stone has no binder material. I wouldn’t mind a little dishing if it’s fast and doesn’t need non-stop watering.

I also have a Sigma Select II 240 that I have used to thin 4 knives and still have 40% of the stone left.
It cuts quite aggressively and does not dish nearly as fast as the crappy King stone I started with. I will probablt
buy another one when I wear this one away.
Sealing the bottom and sides as per Matus previous post would be a great idea.
Lee Valley Tools have them in stock both in Canada and USA.
 
Sigma select 240 is the stone I was referring to, http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=67089&cat=1. I don't see it available on the toolfj site but maybe I overlooked it. For its grit I don't think it's nearly as thirsty as the competitors(although king deluxe 300 and cerax 320 are less thirsty). It's the least PITA sub 300 grit stone I've used. But honestly I would only use something like that for repairs or thinning a knife that's been neglected for sometime. For maintaining geometry I'd easily prefer a cerax or one of jons low grits.
 
I use an atoma 400. At least, it does not dish, it stays flat. But the sensation if not great at all. I am looking for smth else. It is too slow. Atoma 180 is not cheap.
 
Sorry if I'm getting off topic here... the OP is looking for a stone for "serious thinning", but what do you guys use for "light/regular thinning"? I mean, sharpening the whole bevel to avoid getting thick behind the edge, not trying to significantly alter blade grind or thickness. I was thinking something in the 400 grit range.

Thank's
 
Choppin said:
Sorry if I'm getting off topic here... the OP is looking for a stone for "serious thinning", but what do you guys use for "light/regular thinning"? I mean, sharpening the whole bevel to avoid getting thick behind the edge, not trying to significantly alter blade grind or thickness. I was think I'm ing something in the 400 grit range.

Thank's
Click to expand...
Yep. I like my worn down gesh 400, haven't tried the new gesh 400 yet. But yeah, something that doesn't make deep scratches-that can be covered up easily.
 
labor of love said:
Sigma select 240 is the stone I was referring to, http://www.leevalley.com/us/wood/page.aspx?p=67089&cat=1. I don't see it available on the toolfj site but maybe I overlooked it. For its grit I don't think it's nearly as thirsty as the competitors(although king deluxe 300 and cerax 320 are less thirsty). It's the least PITA sub 300 grit stone I've used. But honestly I would only use something like that for repairs or thinning a knife that's been neglected for sometime. For maintaining geometry I'd easily prefer a cerax or one of jons low grits.
Click to expand...

Sorry I thought you were referring to the Sigma Select II.
 
This may sound cheap, but I use my Naniwa 220 lapping stone (the one with the ripple). I flipped it over onto the flat side for repair work and it works quickly. After progression to 600,800,1200 there are limited issues with scratch marks. I even used the side of the lapping stone to reshape the curve/belly of a cleaver.

Cheap, relatively fast and effective.
 
It sounds like the Sigma may be a good option indeed. Thanks for the additional opinions.
This stone is meant for more serious thinning, tip repair etc, and not for more regular maintenance.

I don't think Stu has had this stone in stock for a while, but I've found a German vendor who has it.
He also stocks some of the other options discussed here, and I'll get his opinion as well before making a final decision.

It's been real helpful getting feedback here, so thanks again!

Edit: I live in Norway btw, which is why some US stores suggested here aren't the best option.
Should probably add location to my profile..
 
I haven't used it, but I seem to recall a lot of positive feedback about the Watanabe AI 220, especially as relates to its speed.
 
Pensacola Tiger said:
Have you considered a 1" x 30" belt grinder from Harbor Freight?
Click to expand...

I wonder if the 1x30 would outlast the very cheaply made 4x36, which with a little luck it will outlast a pink brick. You will have to buy decent belts for it. Clever apartment dwellers should be able to build a self-stowing cabinet and effective vacuum cleaner setup for it
 
A small grinder would be much faster than a stone, but it will take a long learning curve to get to such a level of precision, so that after thining the bevel is clean and flat witout over-grinds. And one must be very careful not to overheat the blade.
 
You really should go on ebay and by an AC speed control if you go with the sander, they're cheap.
 
Thought I would give a quick update for those interested on Tools from Japan.

Got and email from Stu today, stones have shipped (2 weeks and 2 days after ordered.) Has upgraded the shipping to account for the delay. Should reach Aus in 6 to 10 business days... oh the joys of Australia Post. Haha
 
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