Coarse stone

Discussion in 'Sharpening Station' started by idemhj, Apr 24, 2015.

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  1. Sep 15, 2019 #91

    Carl Kotte

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    How so? [emoji848]
     
  2. Sep 16, 2019 #92

    M1k3

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    Seems to create more mud and dish more than it cuts, even with light pressure.
     
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  3. Sep 16, 2019 #93

    Knife2meatu

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    I reserve mine for the very hardest, very largest-area applications. For grinding out pitting from the hardened face-side of vintage plane irons, it's a real champ, considering how splash-&-go it is. I think it does a good job of replacing one of those huge SiC bricks, if one want the convenience of a splasher.

    For the opposite sort of applications, it really is stupidly muddy and melty, though. And kind of expensive, relatively speaking.
     
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  4. Sep 16, 2019 #94

    M1k3

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    I can see that use. It leaves a decent finish, for the grit. Just sucks at thinning, especially mono stainless.
     
  5. Sep 16, 2019 #95

    inferno

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    m1k3 and stringer have you guys tried the shapton pro 220? "moss green"

    I think this is quite a good stone imo. keep on cutting, dishes quite slow for the abrasive power it provides and its cheap.
    and it just works. dont know if anyone of you remember my beer can dura marathon with my cheapie aus-8 deba. the beer cans kinda won. but it only took me 1h to remove the chips, and its 6mm thick single bevel steel. and the stone only dished about 2mm or so after that.
     
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  6. Sep 16, 2019 #96

    M1k3

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    I haven't tried it yet. Sounds good. Debating Nanohone 200 and SG or Pro 120 and/or 220.

    The Debado that Stringer got has been removed from the choices.
     
  7. Sep 16, 2019 #97

    inferno

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    get the cheapest one! if its good then it good.

    My usual strategy is to get all of them though :)

    To remove doubts of uncertainty...
     
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  8. Sep 16, 2019 #98

    M1k3

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    That's what I was thinking. Start cheap and keep going until I hit the jackpot.
     
  9. Sep 16, 2019 #99

    SeattleBen

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    My problem starting cheap is that I often end up getting upset with it and then buying whatever it was I thought I wanted to start with. Though with the stones it’s really hard to tell until you get your hands on one.
     
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  10. Sep 16, 2019 #100

    labor of love

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    Aren’t all coarse stones cheap? Haha
    Just drop the extra $20 and get a good one.
     
  11. Sep 17, 2019 #101

    M1k3

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    When I said cheap, I meant in my list of stones I'm interested in, not all stones in general.
     
  12. Sep 17, 2019 #102

    suntravel

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    Fastest stone fot thinning I ever had ist the Shapton Pro120, but needs to be flatted with coarse SiC Powder to keep th agressive cutting.

    A new Atoma140 is a bit faster, but only for the first minutes.

    Regards

    Uwe
     
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  13. Sep 17, 2019 #103

    Cbt

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    The guy from Kasé Knives at instagram was praising the vitrified diamond stone 400# from practical sharpening as the best coarse sharpening stone that he is aware of.

    His ig id is @kknives_switzerland.

    I haven't tried them so I have no idea if they are that good
     
  14. Sep 17, 2019 #104

    M1k3

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    So it acts similar to Crystolon/India stones?
     
  15. Sep 17, 2019 #105

    suntravel

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    Crystolon is an SiC Stone, imho good and fast for grinding bevels, but needs to much pressure for thinning and is not as fast as Shapton 120.

    Regards

    Uwe
     
  16. Sep 17, 2019 #106

    Knife2meatu

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    @suntravel You may have a point about the Crystolon and the pressure, but I don't quite know -- I've got a wrist strain which would tend to agree. But then, it could be from lots of things...

    I have a JUM4 of recent manufacture which requires very little pressure to work. Very large stone, works very fast. But although it releases grit easily; and works, like I said, with light pressure; it requires some oil every little while to keep the surface going, otherwise the oily mud tends to cake and clog the stone -- loosens right up with a few drops, though. And never seems to require re-conditioning of the surface.

    On the other hand, I have vintage 50's-60's Crystolons which are very hard and, like you say, don't hardly work well on anything much larger than a 1/8th bevel: they just won't shed the abrasive, so it wears out and starts burnishing unless the pressure is much higher than the JUM4 I first mentioned. Those stay very flat however; much nicer for grinding bevels of straight edged wood tools. But unlike that first stone, they can require reconditioning.

    Mind you, I'm just talking about the coarse side of those particular combination stones; the fine side of both is quite similar.

    What I'm getting at is, I don't quite know what the difference is due to: Is the JUM4 particularly softer by design? Did they change their recipe for the coarse side, meaning all newer stones are like it? Or is it just variance in the manufacturing?

    I have a bunch of other Crystolons, too -- from the 90's and 00's -- and they're mainly harder than the JUM4 coarse side, but softer than those old ones. Based on the quite recently made JUM4, I'd maintain that Crystolons make good thinning stones. But I don't know if that extends to the smaller recently-made ones -- which I would expect --, or to all older vintages -- which I wouldn't presume.

    Again, this may be due to some manufacturing variance, by which token not even all recently-made JUM4's could be assumed to be equal. But taking such a wide variance for granted makes it impossible to extrapolate from the small sample I have, so I'm going to figure that same model stones, from similar manufacturing periods, behave similarly.

    And although I'm not quite sure that the Shapton Pro 120 is in fact faster -- it may be; I have a hard time estimating such things -- that which endears the 12"x2.5"x1.5" JUM4 to me is how big it is compared to the Shapton. For the money...
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019
  17. Sep 17, 2019 #107

    inferno

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    a good coarse stone would maybe be a combo shapton pro120/220 diy.
     
  18. Sep 19, 2019 #108

    inferno

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    Hey guys i bought a new coarse stone, the robotic stone!

    parkside2.JPG

    parkside3.JPG parkside1.JPG



    I made a 15n20 blade at work (62-63hrc or so probably, might be higher) that i ground "almost done". i left about 1-1,5mm at the very edge. we have an industrial belt grinder and i didn't wanna ruin the temper since this grinder is high speed, so i left some for the stones. little did i know it would take hours and hours to work that 1,5mm down to an edge on stones...

    every other day i grind for 30 minutes or so alternating between the shappro220 and the diaflat 160. and today i guess i had about 1h left until i can put an edge on this blade.

    But today i used the parkside robotic belt grinder stone. and it did all that 1h stone work work in 3 minutes! yeah :)

    Well i had been thinking about getting one of these hand held belt grinders for some time now. i think they are made for planks of wood mostly, like rough work. otherwise you use oscillating ones. the cheapest brand names ones start at about 80-90€bux. However these are crap machines most likely. a blue bosch is 250 or so. and a really heavy duty pro one is probably 4-500€.

    a few days ago i saw that Lidl (a food/supermarket chain in europe) had these cheap ass belt grinders. 600w motor. and they didn't look any worse than the cheap brand ones. 40€. i can live with that.
    So today i got one. "parkside" brand. it uses the shortest belts, 457x75mm, so this is definitely the amateur segment. But i found good quality belts for it locally, bosch makes them. 1,5€ each. I got the 80 grit belts. there was also 40/60/120. the 80 grit belt creates a finish similar to a 500 stone.

    so it turns out this machine had some good features that the cheap brand name ones dont have. not even the expensive ones.

    pros:
    *10-20x faster than any stone, without any effort at all.
    *cheap; 40€, belts 15€ for 10. (it came with one 80 grit belt)
    *adjustable belt speed that has a suitable range for knives imo.
    *actually made to work upside down without wobbling or falling over.
    *came with 2 metal special clamps to mount it upside down on a board (up to maybe 50mm thick boards work) to use it as a bench grinder, though not needed on a table imo
    *3 year warranty
    *it actually works for this
    *did i mention it was cheap?

    cons:
    *loud as **** so you need to use hearing protection. (use it outdoors)
    *throws crap around it, mostly at belt height front and backwards. (use eye protection just in case)
    *belt centering seems to vary with the pressure you put on the belt, it can move 5mm outwards for no apparent reason.
    *speed decreases if you push down hard
    *probably not pro quality/longevity (but good enough for this imo).
    *easy to overheat blades if you dont know what you're doing. i did 2-3 second passes then cooled blade in water.
    *if you are not comfortable using these machines you can ruin a good blade very very quickly. in less than 1 second.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
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  19. Sep 19, 2019 #109

    M1k3

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    I'm jealous! I have a spare bedroom that I've been slowly converting to a workshop. The problem for me and power tools in general is, I live in apartment building, noise concerns.
     
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  20. Sep 19, 2019 #110

    inferno

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    it not that loud. but if you are listening to this machine for like 20 minutes (i wonder why anyone would need that though) then you will get some hearing damage most likely. since in an apartment it gets loud. outdoors not so much.
     
  21. Sep 19, 2019 #111

    inferno

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    i think all of these machines are just as loud though. earplugs!!
     
  22. Sep 20, 2019 #112

    suntravel

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    My version of robotic Stone :

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    works with Chosera disc, Diamaond disc, or copper disk and diamond spray, also good for flattening the underside of natural stones :)

    With 320 rpm and watercooling no risk of overheating...

    Regards

    Uwe
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2019
  23. Sep 20, 2019 #113

    gman

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    holy mackerel!
     
  24. Sep 20, 2019 #114

    HRC_64

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    sweet

    is that DIY or some kind of OEM setup?
     
  25. Sep 21, 2019 #115

    suntravel

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    Thats DIY, engine and speed control from an old golf caddy :)

    Regards

    Uwe
     
  26. Sep 21, 2019 #116

    M1k3

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    How loud is it? Quiet enough for an apartment?
     
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  27. Sep 21, 2019 #117

    suntravel

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    Yes its not noisy, less than an elektric blender.

    Regards

    Uwe
     
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  28. Sep 21, 2019 #118

    Carl Kotte

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    Uwe, I think you just made many boys dream of having one of those diy robots of their own
     
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  29. Sep 21, 2019 #119

    M1k3

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    Who you calling a boy?o_O
     
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  30. Sep 21, 2019 #120

    Carl Kotte

    Carl Kotte

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    Sorry, didn’t mean to be impolite!
     
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