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Coffee conundrum

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MarcelNL

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there sure is lots of OCD going around in the espresso community ;-)
I find that weight is pretty stable across beans and roasts, half a gram more or less won;t change parameters that much. Looking at flow and flow over time the timer can easily be adjusted by empirically to adress any changes from the sweet spot for weight if coffees are reasonably comparable.
 

MarcelNL

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Was researching this. We are only two she liked the straight espresso coffee in Italy.

We don't use milk

Was looking at La Paroni EPC 8 cup Lever espresso machine chrome.

Might have to get diff. Grinder mine is too much work for fine grind.
there are some nice hand grinders that do espresso well and manyy grinders create too much fines to get a nice cup, but be prepared for the effort as grinding finer will be more effort with any grinder.
 

AT5760

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Reading the espresso comments is as confusing as reading about single bevel sharpening. Some things in common with "normal" coffee, yet so many differences.
 

Keith Sinclair

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Looked up Cafelat Robot gets good reviews for pulling shots of espresso. Excuse my lack of knowledge seems like even with a lever machine you would have to clean out filter add more coffee for each controlled pull. Noticed on Robot has a double spout so can do two small cups at once.

How about the lever machines like La Paroni ECP 8 cup do you have to change coffee with each pull. How do auto machines work isn't the idea pressure extracts flavor from the grinds you can't use old grinds again?
 

Keith Sinclair

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Yep since I just want straight espresso no sugar or milk. That looks like a good option. Looks like they are built to last.
 

Moooza

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What kind of grinder do you use & how fine.
I have a Niche Zero. Perfect combination, although I have a Kafatek on the way...

Fineness varies quite a bit depending on the bean and puck prep. But the Niche can handle it all. Good beans, then a good grinder is so important.
 

MarcelNL

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The process is fairly straight forward, you need a GOOD grinder (I'm using an older Mazzer Major with SSP burrs). Good grinders are a-plenty but can get as expensive as Unicorn knives....(that Kafatek is the very high end).
A used Mazzer Super Jolly should not break the bank(150ish) , throw in new burrs for 50 bucks, clean it, align the burrs and you;re set for the rest of your life.

You will need to use fresh grounds for each shot, but you can split double shots into two small single espresso's . Adding hot water makes an Americano which is close to filter/french press. Fresh roasted beans from a good roaster are key to success , as is a good grinder, aim for 14 gram of grounds in, 30-35 grams of espresso out over 30 or so seconds after a short pre infusion of say 10-20 sec.

The Robot makes things ridiculously easy and repeatable, and indeed can keep up with the high end machines. My vintage lever, a Faema Urania makes a fantastic espresso but I'd have trouble identifying which does better; my Urania or the Robot I have for trips.
 

Anton

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Coffee has been my first food related hobby, even before knives. In fact I just picked up a Lelit Bianca this weekend to replace my Domobar Super. I've been roasting for a long time too, although I'll occasionally buy some roasted espresso beans.
After reading the initial and recent posts, for a machine nothing beats a Technivorm. For a grinder shoot for a hand grinder to limit noise and its effective and easily storeable.
I have more coffee equipment and beans than I care to share, anyone can PM me with questions.
welcome to the Lelit family !
 

Luftmensch

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The process is fairly straight forward, you need a GOOD grinder (I'm using an older Mazzer Major with SSP burrs). Good grinders are a-plenty but can get as expensive as Unicorn knives....(that Kafatek is the very high end).
A used Mazzer Super Jolly should not break the bank(150ish) , throw in new burrs for 50 bucks, clean it, align the burrs and you;re set for the rest of your life.

You will need to use fresh grounds for each shot, but you can split double shots into two small single espresso's . Adding hot water makes an Americano which is close to filter/french press. Fresh roasted beans from a good roaster are key to success , as is a good grinder, aim for 14 gram of grounds in, 30-35 grams of espresso out over 30 or so seconds after a short pre infusion of say 10-20 sec.

The Robot makes things ridiculously easy and repeatable, and indeed can keep up with the high end machines. My vintage lever, a Faema Urania makes a fantastic espresso but I'd have trouble identifying which does better; my Urania or the Robot I have for trips.
Good advice... and starting parameters. But experiment!

Dose depends on your equipment. You can dose by volume or by weight (I choose volume). Extraction is preference. If the place where you buy your beans is switched on, they will be able to provide a recommended brew-ratio (1:2 - one gram in; two grams out, is pretty standard).
 

Keith Sinclair

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My only experience with espresso was at work. Kahala Hilton had machine in the kitchen near waiters station.

I found that when came to work at 3pm for night shift liked to make a double espresso sure beat the cafeteria coffee.

When Janice came back from Italy trip with Hawaii tour, she said my pour over coffee was weak. I knew was because of espresso she had been drinking.

Was thinking of going to Starbucks ordering straight double espresso shot and double ristretto.

Never was into those milk and sugar coffee drinks that are so popular.
 

Luftmensch

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My only experience with espresso was at work. Kahala Hilton had machine in the kitchen near waiters station.

I found that when came to work at 3pm for night shift liked to make a double espresso sure beat the cafeteria coffee.

When Janice came back from Italy trip with Hawaii tour, she said my pour over coffee was weak. I knew was because of espresso she had been drinking.

Was thinking of going to Starbucks ordering straight double espresso shot and double ristretto.

Never was into those milk and sugar coffee drinks that are so popular.
Australia is a coffee mad place. We were lucky to have a big wave of italian immigrants after WWII. They brought good coffee and good food. For several decades you have been able to throw a rock in the big capital cities and hit an independent cafe that makes decent espresso coffee. So much so that it is taken as a basic assumption (it is unremarkable). The generations of yuppies, foodies and hipsters has kept Australian coffee new age and easy to access 'artisanal' coffee.

On milky coffee. It is not for everyone - i like them. Depending on my mood, I like flat-whites (mostly), cappuccinos (with dessert) and piccolo-lattes (had too much milk for the day). The protein and fat in the milk gives the drink a different mouth feel and changes the flavour profile (tip - there are beans for milk and beans for straight espresso). BUT... coffee is a savoury drink. Like tea, don't go ruining it with sugar. Super fresh milk already has a lovely light sweetness to it.

Starbucks tried to open here and collapsed pretty quickly. That said... We do have our own 'fast'-coffee chain. They make sugar infused frappa-mappa-cappa-slappa-ccinos... or whatever.

To be fair, it is all cultural. I feel Australia excels at espresso but was late to the party with cold brew and good pour over coffee. It still might 'suck' in these areas. Filter and drip coffee has not been a significant feature of our culture for a long, long time. So I dont like to say American coffee is 'bad'... it is just not to my taste!
 
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Keith Sinclair

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Coffee grows good at little altitude and rich volcanic soil here in Hawaii.

Have been hand grinding Kona coffee beans use pour over gives a pretty good cup of American. Used to use French Press.

I want to up the game. As someone said life to short to not drink good coffee.
 

MarcelNL

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Please forget Starbucks, at the coffee forum they are nicknamed Charbucks for a reason, once upon a time long ago they started out making somewhat decent coffee. These days they use automatic machines probably because proper Barista training and final product quality was less important than the bottom line. Their beans are not the quality you;d hope but for most customers all of that misery is drowned in the loads of sugar and fat that gets added to most of the fave beverages (the triple cardiac bypass frappucino's etc, just look at the calory tables in the shop what's in it)
 

Keith Sinclair

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I know can find good espresso in Honolulu. Not at this time. We had a shut down, opened up with restrictions.
Cases spiked esp. in Pacific Islanders and other cultural groups that live in multi generation homes. Hospitals were getting busy so shut down again. Many small business are going belly up.
 

Keith Sinclair

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Get my coffee from Koko Crater Coffee Roasters. 100 percent Hawaiian. Only10 minute drive from my house. Talked to the roaster he is a coffee expert. Told me when get my Robot will give me samples of different roasts. He said some of his Kona roasts make superb espresso. He does quite a bit for espresso.
 

MarcelNL

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Is there any other coffee than espresso? :p
With the Robot the only thing you have to find out is how much preheat (if any) you need for the roast type, Ultralight roasts are most challenging. Best start off with a medium roast, with something like a drop temperature of around 215'C, there is a HUGE thread on HB on using the Robot and various rituals people use to beg for great espresso, I never bother and get immensily satisfying cups with the standard grind setting I use for the Urania and just a bit of preheat.
 

Keith Sinclair

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Usually espresso is a darker roast. A medium roast for my pour over makes a good cup of American. Most home users use coffee pots. Also pre ground coffee from store or Costco. I have seen people buying a bag of Starbucks beans then grinding the whole bag on Costco grinder.

Some high end places order espresso but they are just servicing home people who know fresh beans are best a small percent. The hotels & everything that give them business are closed because of Covid. I just learned today that there are a small but growing number of people in Honolulu who want fresh beans for espresso. There is hope yet for us island Hicks.
 

Keith Sinclair

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Thanks to you & Moooza for getting me started. Both of you described the pull on the Robot. I have watched plenty videos of people pulling shots since you posted the Robot site. I got the plain model without the pressure gauge.
 

MarcelNL

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you definitely do not need the pressure gauge, espresso used to be a darker roast back when but since third wave coffee happened you need to take care not to land beans at or near the Nordic roast profile that seems to be a favorite of many yet most shops cannot extract a decent espresso from it. Medium roasts can be used for espresso or other preparations, the lighter a roast the finer the grind the more you need the hotter you extract and the more water you need to keep the acidity at bay. My sweet spot is medium roast, I don't like battery acid.
If you like Italian espresso you're like accustomed to very dark roast with a decent amount of Robusta beans in it, you may want to shop around for a blend or single origin coffee from a good roaster to your liking and to be able to compare where you are with the preparation learning curve.
 
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