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danemonji

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Hello,

If you were to start a knife collection ( not necessarily for use in kitchen) but more for perfection of a crafted item and rare use on family occasions.... what would you choose the first gyuto to be:
1) Tsukasa Hinoura > River Jump 240mm
2) Kato Kiyoshi > Kurouchi 240mm
3) Shigefusa > Kitaeji 240mm
....
Perhaps some more sugestions
Thanks
 
Oh boy this can get sensitive for some people :eek: but I will bite;
First I will say your "starting point" is pretty high my friend.
If we are looking for a knife per your statement: perfection of crafted item
I will go with Shigefusa > Tsukasa Hinoura > Kato
If you are looking at the hottest item in the market I will go with Kato > Shige > Tsukasa Hinoura
All personal reference, others will probably see differently
 
I feel Kato and Shig were made to be used as daily drivers. There is nothing aesthetically terrific of either. I know demand has made them collectable, but if I were to procure a few blades for the sake of collecting solely, they would probably be something more like honyaki, suminigashi, cowry x or zdp 189 varients.

And isn't a "high end" kurouchi knife a bit oxymoronic?
 
NO ChoP! said:
I feel Kato and Shig were made to be used as daily drivers. There is nothing aesthetically terrific of either. I know demand has made them collectable, but if I were to procure a few blades for the sake of collecting solely, they would probably be something more like honyaki, suminigashi, cowry x or zdp 189 varients.
Click to expand...
Agreed
Better steel, more complicated forging methods, all good information to be consider.
I would say if not limited down to those 3 knives you listed; you should look at some honyaki single bevels.
They are much harder to make, sharpen and with high quality steel. (again just me speaking)
 
What is and what isn't "collectible" can change over time. Looking at Japanese makers, Shigs used to be available and used to get used. Katos were less available than Shigs, but my impression is, even nowadays they still get used, more so than Shigs. Ashi Honyaki, Konosuke Honyaki, Masamoto Honyaki, Hattori KD, to name just a few others...

Western makers: Kramer, Burke, DT, Rader, high-end Carter knives... Sooooooo many!

Still unsure what OP wants. Is it that ONE knife? If you like the traditional approach, I like Japanese. But if I could choose only one knife, I would probably go for a Western maker, probably a DT in one of his awesome damascus patterns... I am not a damascus guy, but DT is the master of awesomeness when it comes to damascus...
 
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Neither. Don't start. It's a trap.

This is what anyone with a... Neah, no one will say that here.
Honestly, I would go for a knife made for me by one of the artisans here or not. Just see who does something you like first. Start with a soul knife. I wish I had the money to do so.
 
This may be obvious, but I think myself and a lot of people tend to 'collect' what we like, either in use or aesthetically, rather than focusing on just big names. I have quite a few Catchesides and Watanabe/Toyamas because they click with me. Not to say there's anything wrong with a greatest hits type of collection, but I suspect you may ultimately be more satisfied if you figure out your preferences by sampling the field and then chase that.

And to answer your question and not just go off on a tangent, I'd vote the River jump or Yoshiaki Fujiwara damascus.
 
danemonji said:
Hello,

If you were to start a knife collection ( not necessarily for use in kitchen) but more for perfection of a crafted item and rare use on family occasions.... what would you choose the first gyuto to be:
1) Tsukasa Hinoura > River Jump 240mm
2) Kato Kiyoshi > Kurouchi 240mm
3) Shigefusa > Kitaeji 240mm
....
Perhaps some more sugestions
Thanks
Click to expand...
I hate collecting things in general and to store things long term for looks is at the heart of snobbery.

Would I would do instead is make knives out of gold and silver, claim they are 3rd century Sumerian relics and sell them on eBay.
 
Chef Doom said:
I hate collecting things in general and to store things long term for looks is at the heart of snobbery.

Would I would do instead is make knives out of gold and silver, claim they are 3rd century Sumerian relics and sell them on eBay.
Click to expand...

I know no one likes a pedant, but collecting and using are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Also if you need help with the authenticity of your Sumerian relics, I'd be willing to offer my services as an ex-archaeologist.
 
danemonji said:
Hello,

If you were to start a knife collection ( not necessarily for use in kitchen) but more for perfection of a crafted item and rare use on family occasions.... what would you choose the first gyuto to be:
1) Tsukasa Hinoura > River Jump 240mm
2) Kato Kiyoshi > Kurouchi 240mm
3) Shigefusa > Kitaeji 240mm
....
Perhaps some more sugestions
Thanks
Click to expand...

Collecting is very personal. It needs to rock your boat. If you need to ask an opinion of what to buy, then you shouldn't buy it. Wait until you have that obsessive need to buy a particular knife.

Of those three, the Hinoura stands out, since I already have a Kato and Shig. Though there are many other knives I'd rather have than those three.
 
That’s a very interesting question. I have a large collection of knives and I consider all of them to be “collectible”. I like to sit and try to get into the mind of the maker. I can’t do what the makers do. Is an Ishikawa as collectible as a Kato or ... ? To me his knives are every bit as collectible. My advice is to forget about this or that trendy knife and try to figure out what you would like to collect and why you would like to collect them. Use your knives and try to experience why the makers made them the way they did. Collect your stones and develop the skills to sharpen ALL of your knives. To me that is the most satisfying approach.

Just my .02.
 
danemonji said:
Hello,

If you were to start a knife collection ( not necessarily for use in kitchen) but more for perfection of a crafted item and rare use on family occasions.... what would you choose the first gyuto to be:
1) Tsukasa Hinoura > River Jump 240mm
2) Kato Kiyoshi > Kurouchi 240mm
3) Shigefusa > Kitaeji 240mm
....
Perhaps some more sugestions
Thanks
Click to expand...

Also, figure out what objectives drive your collection. Do you want to use the knives or keep them pristine in boxes for future sale—both valid.
 
danemonji said:
If you were to start a knife collection ( not necessarily for use in kitchen) but more for perfection...
Click to expand...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keynesian_beauty_contest

...A naive strategy would be to choose the face that, in the opinion of the entrant, is the most handsome. A more sophisticated contest entrant, wishing to maximize the chances of winning a prize, would think about what the majority perception of attractive is, and then make a selection based on some inference from their knowledge of public perceptions...
Click to expand...

You can read the rest at the link.
 
Ashi Honyaki, Genkai Honyaki, River Jump, Kato Kikuryu.

Also, side bar, “collecting” is relative. I have three of the four mentioned above... use them all.
 
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The only one I have is the 240 Shig kitaeji. I wouldn’t pay current prices for the Ku Kato as I think it’s BS based 100% on rarity, not craftsmanship or performance.
There is a 240 Kasumi Kato on BST that I would grab in a heartbeat if I didn’t have one already.
I am becoming fascinated with the idea of honyaki knives. I know that ship has sailed, but there are many more here who have concentrated their collections on honyaki, and know what to suggest.
 
Burke damascus, HHH damascus, Rader, Devin Thomas damascus, Catchside damascus... All can make beautiful/ eye-catching knives that cut very, very well. There is a while new crop of custom makers as well.
 
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I know someone in Toronto with a similar unpatinered uber collection....;)
 
tgfencer said:
I know no one likes a pedant, but collecting and using are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Also if you need help with the authenticity of your Sumerian relics, I'd be willing to offer my services as an ex-archaeologist.
Click to expand...
I just need a certificate and signature. I hope 10% is agreeable. I won't pay a penny more but I will pay a penny less [emoji41]
 
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