Confused and lost...

[1move]

Hello everyone,

I have always been a fan of knives and proper tools in the kitchen. I have had a lot of German (Henckels) knives and it is all I use, until recently I was at a buddies house for a BBQ and he busted out this beautiful Japanese knife which had me intrigued. I asked a bunch of questions and found out where he got it from and visited the store.

At this store they had an amazing array of knives which were very expensive, and a ton of history behind the craftsmanship which I loved. I used a couple of their demo knives and I ended up liking the Moritaka Hamono – Aogami Super Series. I am new to this whole thing and have zero knowledge about what makes up a great knife. This is how I stumbled upon you great people, and I need a helping hand.

I cook quite a bit myself and usually find myself cutting all sorts of meats, vegetables and fruits. I would like to know more about the quality of these knives and what your choice would be for a guy like me. Are the above mentioned knives any good? I read some mixed reviews and threads on here and I find some of it concerning this is why I did not purchase them yet. I am at a point where I want my money to go the furthest in quality rather than looks and quantity. I would probably look at replacing the handles with some custom made ones.
The store I went to priced these knives at about 3-5 times more than what was available online. For example I could find the same knife that was priced at $500 for about $150 through a vendor on here.
If you had to do it all over again which knives would you purchase from which company and why? Sorry if this is too many questions, I have read a ton of material on here and am just lost to be honest and this is why I am asking. I rather start collecting slowly and spend the money on one knife if I know I am getting quality over quantity.

 

[BingTao]

Hey 1move,

Honestly, since you're a homecook you could probably do with a chef's knife for basically everything (cutting meat and vegetables, chopping herbs) and a small pairing knife for dicing onions etc. If you start using those you might come across certain chores that you would like a better suited knife for, and then you can always expand.

I don't know much about the different brands and knife-styles (western or japanese), so I can't really help your there.

Good luck :biggrin:

 

[MrOli]

J knives are fascinating indeed.

The good news is that you do not need to spend a fortune. While single bevel knives are very task specific you can cover 99% of tasks with a big knife (210 or 240 gyuto) and a paring/petty knife.

Of course if you catch the knife bug 2 won't do...

As for where you can buy them this site has plenty of recommendable vendors at good prices.

 

[Godslayer]

Above guy is right. I'd go a 210-250 mm gyuto and a 70-90 mm petty(pairing) after that you expand out once you know what's the most pratical. As for vendors I always Google a knife and compare prices I.e. a takeda is the same price at cktg and knifewear but knifewear is in canadian currency so it's much cheaper. No experience on moritaka I've heard mixed reviews so it's a judgement call but I do recommend a stainless cladded knife for your first carbon, that just means the core is protected by stainless cladding so patina and rust issues are minimized. I'd recomend looking around at different sites and coming back with a short list of 3-5 and than ask for general opinions there is a short survey they ask you fill out with some basic questions. Anyways good luck and thank you for joining the sharpest place on earth.

All the best,
Evan

 

[tkern]

One of my first knives was a Moritaka. For an entry into the world of carbon, Japanese style knives it did me a lot of good learning how to properly maintain (rusting, etc) and sharpen. I have since moved on to other knives but I still hold on to it and use it.
If the knife feels good to you then go for it. There are endless possibilities and you can't really know what works for you until you dip your foot in.
Next, are you looking to buy one knife and call it a day or are you looking to build a collection? On this forum no one is going to steer you in the wrong direction but everyone has preferences. The difference in performance in a $100 vs. a $300-500 is significant but its up to you whether what you do at home is worth that price bump.
If your answer is "yes" then a bunch of stuff opens up so put on your seat belt 'cause there is a lot of craftsmen that do beautiful work out there.

 

[daveb]

Welcome.

The "which knife" questionnaire will help you think about the qualities of a knife that are important to you as well as provide a basis for tailored recommendations.

Suggest you fill it out and attach it here or start a new thread. I would not suggest a carbon knife to anyone just starting into quality knives, rather a stainless or stainless clad so that you can learn about the knife and not be overly concerned about wiping, drying, wiping, drying.

And that nice sharp knife will not stay that way by itself. You should also be thinking about a sharpening regimen that will work for you.

A

 

[sharptools]

I would like to mention that you probably want to include in your process a basic set of sharpening stones (combo or not). Half of it is sharpening and maintaining it. I honestly would start out with something where you would appreciate but not afraid to sharpen either. The price for this varies for different people. AS may cut great at the store, but you have to learn how to maintain it and you probably didn't see that at the store. I started with my Carbonext for this reason and it worked out great.

The following are knives I have had over time and I think it has worked ok for me.

Semi stainless (carbonext)
Blue #2
R2
White #2
AS
Ginsanko
White #2 honyaki

These knives varied in type, size and geometry and I've thinned one or two of them out as well. I am currently looking to rehandle one or two of the knives.

Overall I find myself prefer ease of maintenance and a knife that is not too thin with good food release. Over time I have also started to settle on 240mm as my go to length for gyutos (210s don't have enough flat and 270s are too unwieldy for me). I use my white #2 and ginsanko the most but even if that is your preference, your white #2 and ginsanko may end up being very different from mine.

So my main advice is pick one and adjust. I'd be surprised if you only end up buying one knife after going into this rabbit hole. :laugh:

 

[sharptools]

Welcome.

The "which knife" questionnaire will help you think about the qualities of a knife that are important to you as well as provide a basis for tailored recommendations.

Suggest you fill it out and attach it here or start a new thread. I would not suggest a carbon knife to anyone just starting into quality knives, rather a stainless or stainless clad so that you can learn about the knife and not be overly concerned about wiping, drying, wiping, drying.

And that nice sharp knife will not stay that way by itself. You should also be thinking about a sharpening regimen that will work for you.

A

+1 to knife questionnaire

 

[perneto]

Where do you live? Recommendations will vary based on that.

 

[1move]

LOCATION
What country are you in? Alberta, Canada



KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chef’s knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)? All of the above, starting out with a Chef's knife.

Are you right or left handed? Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle? No preference

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)? 200-250mm?? at this point

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no) No

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife? $300 - $600



KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment? Home.

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.) slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, filleting fish, trimming meats.

What knife, if any, are you replacing? Not replacing

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.) No

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.) Push-cut, slice, and chop

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.) Sharpness is key and the ability to sharpen to a very sharp edge.

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)? It wouldn't hurt if it was pleasing on the eyes

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)? -

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)? -

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)? Not opposed to learning how to sharpen in order to keep it in top shape.



KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.) all of the above

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.) Not at this point

If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.) Yes

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.) Yes

 

[chinacats]

Curious what bothers you more--food sticking to the blade, or wedging while cutting food? Most everything will be lighter than your Henckels but some will be extremely light (those that light saber their way through food but can have a tendency to have some products stick).

 

[1move]

Curious what bothers you more--food sticking to the blade, or wedging while cutting food? Most everything will be lighter than your Henckels but some will be extremely light (those that light saber their way through food but can have a tendency to have some products stick).

First, thanks everyone for your time and replies.

I am not bothered by the food sticking as I can easily get it off. I guess its more of a nuisance than anything else.

What I am intrigued by is the insane sharpness of the Japanese knives. I was just blown away how sharp they are and how light they are.

I love cooking and enjoy BBQ'ing quite a bit. I own two Big Green Egg's and 80% of the time I cook my food on there. The taste is unmatched and I absolutely love it.

For my wife birthday I smoked a brisket for 22 hours and we had some company over and they loved it. The Henckels were not up to the task as the brisket was so soft that it fell apart. I felt that I needed to apply pressure with the knife in order to cut the meat which intern produced flaking of the meat and I could not present it the way I liked to our guests.
Same issue I run into with chicken, the skin crusts up nicely from the smoke and when i go to cut it, it just looks like someone took a hacksaw to it.

Now don't get me wrong my knives are sharp but not compare to what I saw in the Japanese blades. I am not opposed to learning how to sharpen them properly as I have basically just left it to a $100 sharpening machine.

I love the idea how beautiful some of the knives look and it just becomes a compliment to my love for cooking.

Here is a photo of the brisket about halfway through the cook.

 

[daveb]

Only 2?

:cool2:

 

[sharptools]

Looks like a job for a nice big suji if you are going to slice up some meat :-D

 

[jaybett]

Welcome to the forum!

Moritaka makes a good knife at a nice price. Part of that nice price is that knife can be over ground, so as the knife is sharpened a hole or gap will appear in the edge. All vendors who sell to westerners, have a pretty good idea what their customers want, and will inspect their knives before selling them. The over grind can be tricky to identify, so it can slip through an inspection. This issue isn't isolated to Moritaka, so working with a reputable vendor is a good idea. One who will take care of you after the sale.

All Japanese knives will get incredibly sharp. How long they hold an edge, ease of sharpening, profile, geometry, stain resistance, how they cut, are all characteristics, that differentiate knifes from one another. Characteristics are a matter of personal preference, which is gained through experience. Something that newbies don't have.

I wouldn't get hung up on brands. Most of them are good. What is important is working with a vendor that you trust and feel comfortable asking questons. There are a number of vendors up in Canada, some of which have sub-forums here. The more information you can share with them, types of cuisine you enjoying making, how many people do you cook for on a regular basis? Do you like to have parties? Do you enjoy being precise in your cutting or do you bash your way through prep? Will help the vendor make some good suggestions.

To get the best performance out of a Japanese knife one needs to learn how to sharpen or be willing to send the knife out two to three times a year to be sharpened. Learning how to do anything, means mistakes are going to happen. I found it much easier to learn how to sharpen with a $150 knife then a $600 knife.

Good luck with your choice,

Jay

 

[the_apprentice]

Thinking about your situation the Tanaka Ginsan gyuto from knives and stones in Australia might be good for you. Attractive handle, easy to sharpen and maintain, and the exchange rate should be pretty friendly for you. http://www.knivesandstones.com/tanaka-ginsan-ginsanko-g3-nashiji-gyuto-240mm/