Corned beef

Discussion in 'Whats Cooking? Food, Drink, & Gear' started by MrHiggins, Mar 12, 2019.

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  1. Mar 12, 2019 #1

    MrHiggins

    MrHiggins

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    I was at the grocery store today and picked up a packaged corn beef from the massive St Patrick's day display. Mesmerized by the shamrocks and leprechauns, I failed to notice that I grabbed a round, rather than brisket (I didn't even know corned round existed, to be honest).

    So now I have to make due. Because it's a lean cut, I'm thinking sous vide. Does anyone have any recipes or experience with cooking a corned round for St Patrick's day? Any help would be greatly appreciated...
     
  2. Mar 12, 2019 #2

    Godslayer

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    This is going to sound weird but corn beef with Thai Green Curry and Cabbage is delicious if you want a change, I use coconut milk in the broth to emphasize the richness of the meat and add improve the texture of the broth(I suspect a little pineapple would also help tenderize the meat and could potentially brighten the sauce, but I've yet to try that), obviously the broth is also green to fit the theme, a simple cassarole/large pot will all get the job done. I've only cooked the round once and generally prefer brisket but the round is definately worth eating, make sure to keep liquid levels high and cook it slowly, I think I did 3.5 hours at 300 and liked my end results. Adding the cabbage and root veg about 45-60 minutes out from when it's done. Chicken stock cut with water in the corn beef is also my prefered stock, I'm not sure how your doing it but normally I like to do this in one big pot, it's the Newfie in me. Plain the recipe basically stays the same low and slow, adding the veg at the end, spicing and the like is up to you and your personal preference
     
  3. Mar 12, 2019 #3

    Xenif

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    Corned Beef Croquettes, jalapeno/cilantro/lime dip in a shamrock shaped dish, served with green beer.
     
  4. Mar 12, 2019 #4

    Bert2368

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    "Geen beer" USED to mean it hadn't aged in bottle. What it means NOW is an abomination unto the Reinheitsgebot!
     
  5. Mar 12, 2019 #5

    Kgp

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    Here is Serious Eat's take on corned beef. This is usually my go-to source for sous vide.

    Not sure about a "round". I usually see them as flats or points, but I'd give this method a shot.


    https://www.seriouseats.com/2011/03...-day-simmering-brisket-meat-the-food-lab.html

    Ken
     
  6. Mar 12, 2019 #6

    ACHiPo

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    Good thread. Subscribed. I'm planning on trying sous vide. One newbie question I had is whether I could sous vide in the vacuum package it came in? I'm guessing the answer is I should transfer it to a proper sous vide bag and add some beef stock, but???

    Also, the Serious Eats cooking temp seems a bit high. I had really good results with brisket I finished on a BBQ cooking at 145 for 48 hours. Thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2019
  7. Mar 12, 2019 #7

    Kgp

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    If it were me, I'd open it and rinse it. Plus, the little packet of spices wouldn't do anything. No need to add any other liquid unless you want it for flavor. I usually braise mine in beer and onions. Haven't tried it sous vide yet, but might this time.
     
  8. Mar 12, 2019 #8

    ACHiPo

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    I'm a bit embarrassed I posted the question before reading the link. It recommends removing the spices (in the past I just dumped the whole thing in a pot with cabbage and potatoes and called it good--it was mediocre). I read somewhere that it's good to add beef stock to the bag, and since I made a gallon and a half of bone stock last weekend I think I'll add a half cup or so. I really like the idea of doing just the meat with sous vide ahead of time then steaming the meat while the veggies cook.
     
  9. Mar 12, 2019 #9

    Kgp

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    As I recall, he experimented with different cooking temps to find the right balance between time and texture. Here's his explanation:

    The amount of time needed to tenderize a piece of meat seems to increase exponentially as the temperature gets lower. The beef was fully tender after 15 hours at 175°F, but took a full 36 to tenderize at 160°. Bump the temperature all the way to 205°F—that's the temperature of a simmering pot on the stovetop, more or less—and your cooking time is reduced to 3 hours.

    So obviously, the best way to cook the beef is to just boil the heck out of it until tender, right?

    Not so fast. Take a look at the next graph first.

    [​IMG]



    In this chart, I plotted the temperature it was cooked at along with the amount of moisture the beef lost. If you remember, moisture getting squeezed out of muscle fibers due to temperature increase is a fast reaction. That means that whether I boil a piece of beef for 3 hours or 20 hours, it makes little difference to the overall moisture level. The only thing that really matters is temperature. at 160°F, about 30% of the brisket's has gone out the window. Bring it up to 190°F, and we're looking at 48% moisture loss. All the way up to 205°F, the temperature at which most people cook their beef, and we're at a whopping 53% moisture loss!

    So really, to retain the maximum amount of moisture, I wanted to cook it at as low a temperature as possible. That said, tasted side-by-side, I actually preferred the slightly drier, flakier beef cooked at 175°. It just seemed more like the corned beef I was used to. Further testing showed that for my taste, 180°F cooked for around 10 hours was just about ideal, producing meat that was simultaneously tender and succulent.

    And remember: if you want your beef flakier, just cook it at a higher temperature for a shorter time. Prefer it more dense and moist? Try a lower temperature for a longer time. Got it?

    Looks like there is no one perfect method, just depends on what you want in the end. I like the way he explains it.
    Ken
     
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  10. Mar 12, 2019 #10

    ACHiPo

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    Ken,
    That's great. Not sure if this is the same guy from food lab that I based my original brisket testing on, but he had a similar rationale. As I recall the lower temps--135-150--gave more steak-like texture, while the higher temps were a little flakier/stringier. Oh well I've got a couple more days before I need to decide.
    Evan
     
  11. Mar 12, 2019 #11

    boomchakabowwow

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    I bought both types last year. Cooked them on back to back weekends. The round was good but admittedly had a dryer mouth feel.

    Both resulting breakfast hash dishes were similar
     
  12. Mar 12, 2019 #12

    MrHiggins

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    Good to know the brisket and round aren't too different. I'm sticking with my original plan and that's to sous vide it. If I happen to run into a corned brisket between now and Friday, I'll buy it and make a pastrami out of the round (the shape would work well for sandwich-sized cuts, I think).

    Thanks for the serious eats link. They're my go-to for sous vide as well (Chefsteps is good too).
     
  13. Mar 13, 2019 #13

    Paraffin

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    I haven't done corned beef, but the 180 degrees in that link seems a bit high to me too. For what it's worth, my Fake-BBQ Pulled Pork Shoulder cooks sous vide at 165 deg. F for 21 hours. That's for a 2-3 lb. pork shoulder. When I think of corned beef, I think of a moist meat, not "flaky," so I'd probably go lower temp and slower, following Ken's advice in that link. Maybe 170 F for 12 hours? Something like that.

    Darn, now I might have to get a corned beef and cabbage thing going for the weekend. It's not my favorite food, but corned beef hash and eggs the morning after a heavy night of St. Patrick's Day drinking, *is* one of my favorite foods.
     
  14. Mar 13, 2019 #14

    Michi

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  15. Mar 13, 2019 #15

    ACHiPo

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    I decided to go with 140F. I rinsed the uncured, marinated brisket, removing as many spices as I could, and dried with paper towels. I put about 1/4C of beef stock in the vacuum bag with the brisket and tossed it in the bath. Will pull it tomorrow night after about 48 hours and chill for slicing. I plan to basically follow the Serious Eats recipe after that.
     
  16. Mar 13, 2019 #16

    Kgp

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    Can't wait to see how it comes out. I travel during the week, so don't have 48 hours at home to do a cook like this, so I'll have to go the shorter route. I may try my beer and onion braise in the sous vide to see if is better than low and slow in the oven.

    Ken
     
  17. Mar 13, 2019 #17

    ACHiPo

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    I'll post pictures if I remember. I often focus on cooking and prep so forget about taking pics.
     
  18. Mar 14, 2019 #18

    Michi

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    Don't you dare! ;)
     
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  19. Mar 14, 2019 #19

    rickg17

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    Hmm. Interesting. I have some brisket curing and need to pull it tomorrow. Might sous vide it vs simmering at 190.
     
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  20. Mar 14, 2019 #20

    ACHiPo

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    Here you go Michi--a progress pic. 24 hours down, 24 to go...
    IMG_2044.JPG
     
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  21. Mar 14, 2019 #21

    Michi

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    :)

    Nice big pot there! The lid looks interesting. Is that a special sous vide lid for the Anova, or something else that you re-purposed. Looks like it does the job nicely!
     
  22. Mar 14, 2019 #22

    ACHiPo

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    Yeah I got that many years ago as part of a beer making kit. I never made the beer, but have gotten my money's worth from the big stock pot! The lid was a Christmas gift--it's a silicone thing that fits over the Anova (or probably Joule) sous vide stick and covers the pot. A bit nicer than the foil I had been using.) I think it was an ebay or Amazon special.
     
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  23. Mar 15, 2019 #23

    Bert2368

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    Damn you all!

    I thought I had EVERY KITCHEN THINGY I COULD NEED!!!

    Now I have read the @#%$! Serious Eats page and am checking the local Target for an immersion heater/circulator and bags. Because, my crock pot DOES NOT maintain a very tight temperature, has only high/low/warm settings.

    At least I already HAD the corned beef brisket.
     
  24. Mar 15, 2019 #24

    Michi

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    This forum is full of temptation. Absolute cesspit of evil…
     
  25. Mar 15, 2019 #25

    Kgp

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    Come over to the dark side! Look up some recipes for creme brûlée. Super easy in sous vide. Jumbo lobster tails cooked in butter...

    Ken
     
  26. Mar 15, 2019 #26

    Paraffin

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    If you have a smartphone and reliable home WiFi, do check out the Joule brand circulator. It's not expensive, and it's such a pleasure to lie in bed at night just before going to sleep, and check on my phone that the thing is still running on a 21 hour cook. I can be out of the room when I've started it heating, and it tells me it's ready to add food with a bleep on my phone. So convenient.

    And then I can tell you about the nice dedicated clear plastic tub and racks I found for doing this. No problem. Glad to help. :D
     
  27. Mar 15, 2019 #27

    Michi

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    If you buy an Anova, don't even try to use it using the phone app. The app is absolute garbage. And don't use the built-in timer: it does nothing other than beep at you forever once it expires, until you turn off the beeps at the device.

    The only workable way to use an Anova is to set the temperature using the scroll wheel on the device, and turn it on. Set an alarm on your phone and, when it goes off, turn off the Anova manually. That works, is stress-free, reliable, and faster than fiddling with the phone app.

    The main advantage of the Anova is that you can use it without an app. With the Joule, you cannot. The big problem here is that you can use the Joule only for as long as the manufacturer is willing to push out updates for the app. And they have to do that regularly, because the ecosystem on phones is in constant flux, so older software typically stops working after a few years if it isn't updated.

    Ten years from now, a Joule will most likely still work fine but, if you can't get the app updated anymore, it will be a useless lump of electronics.

    For this reason, I never buy any device that can be operated only via a smart phone. There is no incentive for the manufacturer to keep spending money on updating apps once they have sold you the hardware. The economic model for phone-operated devices simply doesn't work.
     
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  28. Mar 15, 2019 #28

    ACHiPo

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    Come on in! The water's fine!

    I feel your pain. I have a Watanabe 125mm Hakiri incoming that I definitely do not need as a result of some ooohing and ahhhing on another thread here.
     
  29. Mar 15, 2019 #29

    ACHiPo

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    Anova has the same feature, but frankly I find it more trouble than it's worth.

    Edit: shoulda read Michi's note before posting. What he said!
     
  30. Mar 15, 2019 #30

    ACHiPo

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    And soft eggs. And brisket for bbq. And...

    Actually the creme brulee comment has me thinking back to the savory custards I get in China and Japan. Should be awesome in a sous vide!

    Don't recommend it for steaks, though.
     

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