Could you guys pls check this TF Maboroshi?

[Carl Kotte]

See your point, yet does a master patissier every pastry by himself, does a chef make all dishes? Does Ferdinand make every Porsche?

Well, yes, of course!

 

[IsoJ]

It’s going to be so hard to flip this knife later

How do you know that you haven't flipped it allready

 

[Carl Kotte]

But nobody thinks these things, so they're not all that relevant as comparisons.

Well - some do (walking away in shame )

 

[Carl Kotte]

How do you know that you haven't flipped it allready

That’s right! I don’t

 

[JDC]

See your point, yet does a master patissier every pastry by himself, does a chef make all dishes? Does Ferdinand make every Porsche?

Well, it's a matter of expectation right? Guess a lot of the people who's attracted to his knives by those "TFTFTFTFs" expect they would receive a piece at least forged by the master. Also, I think it's more suitable to compare artisan-made knives to art pieces instead of food and cars.

 

[Corradobrit1]

Well, it's a matter of expectation right? Guess a lot of the people who's attracted to his knives by those "TFTFTFTFs" expect they would receive a piece at least forged by the master. Also, I think it's more suitable to compare artisan-made knives to art pieces instead of food and cars.

The people actually doing the forging are no newbies. TF's are not apprentice pieces, in fact one guy is 75 years old and its safe to say he's been doing this work for many decades.

 

[Corradobrit1]

.

 

[ModRQC]

Hey very nice to point this out, this was something I wondered for myself. So we can still "count on" the high hardness, acute HT treatment TF himself became renowned for. Thanks!

 

[MarcelNL]

.

 

[JDC]

The people actually doing the forging are no newbies. TF's are not apprentice pieces, in fact one guy is 75 years old and its safe to say he's been doing this work for many decades.

Good to know that!

 

[MarcelNL]

tter of expectation right? Guess a lot of the people who's attracted to his knives by those "TFTFTFTFs" expect they would receive a piece at least forged by the master. Also, I think it's more suitable to compare artisan-made knives to art pieces instead of food and cars.

did you ever see the documentary about the most famous sushi chef and his son, who hopes to ever become the master? 'Jiro dreams of sushi'

I hear what you are saying, there is nuance to this...ever see how Rembrandt painted that many paintings?

 

[JDC]

.

We do see exceptions, and it's common in Japan that apprentices do the heavy liftings. But sometimes it's just good to know who really made your knife.

TF's are not apprentice pieces, in fact one guy is 75 years old and its safe to say he's been doing this work for many decades.

 

[labor of love]

Women, find a man that feels about you the way @Corradobrit1 feels about Gaku

 

[inferno]

The people actually doing the forging are no newbies. TF's are not apprentice pieces, in fact one guy is 75 years old and its safe to say he's been doing this work for many decades.

maybe he is too old to do quality work?

what if all these problematic shoddy blades were made by this single guy??

 

[M1k3]

maybe he is too old to do quality work?

what if all these problematic shoddy blades were made by this single guy??

Apparently people like us don't understand Japanese culture.

"It's not a bug, it's a feature."

 

[Garm]

Hold the phone.. Could this also mean that for example Yoshida Sr. doesn't forge and heat treat all Yoshikane knives ?
Now I don't know how to feel about that knife I tried last month and really liked.

 

[Corradobrit1]

maybe he is too old to do quality work?

what if all these problematic shoddy blades were made by this single guy??

Kiyoshi Kato is same age
And no, his focus isn't the main product lines

 

[Corradobrit1]

Apparently people like us don't understand Japanese culture.

"It's not a bug, it's a feature."

I've heard that before from more than one source. Wonky Wa handle installations seem to be perfectly normal and OK

 

[juice]

Now I don't know how to feel about that knife I tried last month and really liked.

Nothing wrong with a knife you like.

 

[damiano]

OP here again I’ve had another good look at the grind and it seems okay (with my untrained eye). Made some new pics. Any new insights based on these?

 

[Corradobrit1]

Hanging the knife in mid air won't tell us much. Rest the edge against flat surface like a chopping board in front of a window. Look for light leak especially in the flat spot. Roll the edge from tip to heel and make sure the transition is smooth to the end. Place the knife on the board on its side with handle hanging off the edge and press the heel with the thumb. The tip should be elevated to the same extent on both sides.

 

[inferno]

grab the handle of the knife. blade flat side up just like in your pic.
put the handle close to your eye.
aim the tip of the blade towards something bright.
tilt blade up down to find the low spots/overgrinds.

it will take you about 1 minute to find out if its good or not.

 

[nakiriknaifuwaifu]

OP here again I’ve had another good look at the grind and it seems okay (with my untrained eye). Made some new pics. Any new insights based on these?

You'll never know exactly what you're working with till you slap it on a stone.

I'd also say don't ask questions you don't want to know the answer to If it cuts the way you want it to, you can sharpen it for a few years before you need to thin (and even that can be done with sandpaper), but if you rub it on a 1k now to see what's up and expose holes and overgrinds, you cannot unsee that.

What I'm trying to say is that a visual inspection can tell you if there's anything majorly horrible with the knife, but you can never say "this TF is not bad/good" by just looking at it.

 

[damiano]

You'll never know exactly what you're working with till you slap it on a stone.

I'd also say don't ask questions you don't want to know the answer to If it cuts the way you want it to, you can sharpen it for a few years before you need to thin (and even that can be done with sandpaper), but if you rub it on a 1k now to see what's up and expose holes and overgrinds, you cannot unsee that.

Yes, I understand. Thing is if I slap it on a stone I cannot return it anymore. Tomorrow I’m at home and have some time while it’s still light outside, so I will check it again then. Thanks everyone so far!

 

[Corradobrit1]

What I'm trying to say is that a visual inspection can tell you if there's anything majorly horrible with the knife, but you can never say "this TF is not bad/good" by just looking at it.

I think it depends. A bit of an overgrind higher up the blade is not going to be of importance to the average user. Sure you won't get a perfect kasumi finish but how many people think that is the be all and end all. Whats important is not having 'holes' in the edge that will get worse with regular thinning and sharpening. And that the blade is straight. YMMV

 

[NO ChoP!]

Japanese years vs. American years is not the same. Kinda like dog years. A 75 year old Japanese man is middle aged.

 

[Corradobrit1]

Japanese years vs. American years is not the same. Kinda like dog years. A 75 year old Japanese man is middle aged.

No less incredible given the apparent unhealthy conditions in those Japanese workshops. In comparison most Western makers shops are downright clinical in their cleanliness and adherence to OSHA guidelines.

 

[inferno]

i dont know how unhealthy conditions are in japans workshops. they basically work with heat/fire, wood, horn, low alloyed steel/iron. and dust from wood/horn/steel. also most grinding is done on water wheels.

in the western world we work with synthetic materials such as carbon fiber/micarta/g10, high alloyed steels full of vanadium for instance. lots of glues and solvents, all grinding is done on belt grinders.

now grinding g10 = glass fiber/resin dust,
carbon = sharp carbon filaments/epoxy dust,
micarta = epoxy or some other resin dust
you will probably get lung cancer from all of these with enough exposure.

also grinding steels with vanadium = could probably produce vanadium pentoxide in the dust. and that can kill you.

so i'd say the real conditions is actually much much worse in the western world, if you consider how dangerous the materials are.

 

[Corradobrit1]

i dont know how unhealthy conditions are in japans workshops. they basically work with heat/fire, wood, horn, low alloyed steel/iron. and dust from wood/horn/steel. also most grinding is done on water wheels.

in the western world we work with synthetic materials such as carbon fiber/micarta/g10, high alloyed steels full of vanadium for instance. lots of glues and solvents, all grinding is done on belt grinders.

now grinding g10 = glass fiber/resin dust,
carbon = sharp carbon filaments/epoxy dust,
micarta = epoxy or some other resin dust
you will probably get lung cancer from all of these with enough exposure.

also grinding steels with vanadium = could probably produce vanadium pentoxide in the dust. and that can kill you.

so i'd say the real conditions is actually much much worse in the western world, if you consider how dangerous the materials are.

When you put it like that I understand why there are extra precautions. Explains Dalmans breathing apparatus in his profile pic. Cocobolo wood dust is also pretty unpleasant.

 

[M1k3]

i dont know how unhealthy conditions are in japans workshops. they basically work with heat/fire, wood, horn, low alloyed steel/iron. and dust from wood/horn/steel. also most grinding is done on water wheels.

in the western world we work with synthetic materials such as carbon fiber/micarta/g10, high alloyed steels full of vanadium for instance. lots of glues and solvents, all grinding is done on belt grinders.

now grinding g10 = glass fiber/resin dust,
carbon = sharp carbon filaments/epoxy dust,
micarta = epoxy or some other resin dust
you will probably get lung cancer from all of these with enough exposure.

also grinding steels with vanadium = could probably produce vanadium pentoxide in the dust. and that can kill you.

so i'd say the real conditions is actually much much worse in the western world, if you consider how dangerous the materials are.

True. Western makers also have dust collection and facemasks though. Won't stop exposure, might reduce it enough to be a wash. Who knows. Lifestyle is another factor.