Covid: the shape of things to come

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Jovidah

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Can't wait for people to blame the vaccines for contributing to overpopulation and food shortages...
 

tcmx3

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Someone help me understand the difference between when Eric says:

The same people continue to die regardless of vaccination status, 65 years of age or older multiple comorbidities

And in the 80s when people said:

AIDs isn't a big deal because the people dying are...

I just fail to see how these aren't the same statement.
 

EricEricEric

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Because people who are vaccinated even boosted to the gills etc. are still dying and the people that are still dying are the people with advanced age AND 3-4 comorbidities


The stats for the people dying that are not vaccinated vs vaccinated are still the same, they’re the same people regardless of vaccination status and they still die whether they are vaccinated or not

That’s not a success, That’s a total failure
 

MarcelNL

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boosted to the gills...now how does that look? Using examples to illustrate a point for a whole society is a total failure.

Please go read an article on statistics, then something about covid and relative risk, forget the desinformation floating around on the net...
Not an easy read but reading a few pages a day may be worthwhile; http://www.biostathandbook.com/HandbookBioStatThird.pdf
 

Matus

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Eric, what put you on a crusade? I have rarely seen someone so persistent in trying to prove a point that does not exist. For all means you can consider all the official data and research wrong, manipulated or fake, but what drives you in trying to convince everyone else?
 

EricEricEric

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Because antiviral medication has the potential to save far more lives. Not from just coronavirus, but influenza, para influenza, adenovirus, rhinovirus, etc as well

Even if you have 5+ vaccinations for coronavirus it’s still only mildly effective at best. Every time the virus mutates the old vaccination loses its effectiveness even more and it wasn’t effective to begin with.

The vaccinations don’t prevent spread either, nor do the masks as no one is 100% using an N95 correctly 100% of the time and a N95 mask even when worn perfectly isn’t N100. It’s absolutely impossible to avoid infection unless you live in a remote area that never encounters contamination from said virus.

It would be far more effective to push to get everybody into a healthy state and to use antiviral medication immediately upon infection and/or exposure

My goal is to actually save people‘s lives and not align myself with corporations, idealogs, or party politics like others are doing.

A vaccination that still allows people to die is not effective and it’s not okay. Also, that’s not even considering all of the harm the vaccinations have caused as well which only compounds the harm that’s been done

Imagine if they immediately started treating everybody from the very beginning with antiviral medication instead of telling them to just go home until the symptoms get worse and then come to the hospital and then everyone having to wait for a vaccination to be created that doesn’t even work properly.

When a new virus comes about we will have to repeat this whole absurd cycle all over again when we could just use antiviral medication.
 

MarcelNL

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It would be far more effective to push to get everybody into a healthy state and to use antiviral medication immediately upon infection and/or exposure
best of luck with getting everyone to a healthy state...
My goal is to actually save people‘s lives and not align myself with corporations, idealogs, or party politics like others are doing.
sounds very altruistic and I don't doubt you mean it, yet I happen to think you may be working in the opposite direction by what you communicate. BTW; I am not sure who you accuse of 'aligning with corporations idealogs or party politics' and if so what the issue with that is when saving lives is the goal.

A vaccination that still allows people to die is not effective and it’s not okay. Also, that’s not even considering all of the harm the vaccinations have caused as well which only compounds the harm that’s been done
A vaccination does not 'allow' anything, NO drug/treatment is 100% effective..
Imagine if they immediately started treating everybody from the very beginning with antiviral medication instead of telling them to just go home until the symptoms get worse and then come to the hospital and then everyone having to wait for a vaccination to be created that doesn’t even work properly.
sure...did you read up on their efficacy? and availability?

Conclusions: Although select antivirals have exhibited efficacy to improve clinical outcomes in COVID-19 patients, none demonstrated efficacy in reducing mortality. Larger RCTs are needed to conclusively establish efficacy.

When a new virus comes about we will have to repeat this whole absurd cycle all over again when we could just use antiviral medication.
yes we likely will, and we might need to run a few studies to see if the new antivirals work against that new virus, and if safety is still OK.

Bottom line, masks do not work, vaccines do not work, antivirals do not work, or...just perhaps, things are not this black and white and there is a middle ground; use all means we have to the best of our abilities.
(which IMHO is exactly what is being done)
 
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daveb

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Me thinks Covid has become a bit like religion. You believe what you're going to believe.

There are studies that support every point of view. Nobody believes the ones that don't support their views. Everyone thinks that their side is supported by "empirical" evidence. Everyone wonders why everyone doesn't feel the same way they do.

E3 has no monopoly on the "facts" but neither do his naysayers.
 

tcmx3

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Me thinks Covid has become a bit like religion. You believe what you're going to believe.

There are studies that support every point of view. Nobody believes the ones that don't support their views. Everyone thinks that their side is supported by "empirical" evidence. Everyone wonders why everyone doesn't feel the same way they do.

E3 has no monopoly on the "facts" but neither do his naysayers.

This self-important both-sidsing is really unhelpful.

And there are not equal claims to empiricism, all of the people with actual expertise in stats and epidemiology are on one side.

Also you yourself pulled the mask off more or less instantly the last time this was brought up. You only care about "evidence" for about 5 seconds. To suggest that you and I are in any way, shape or form approaching the evidence around covid equally is insulting.
 

gregfisk

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The consistent spread and spouting of vaccine misinformation in this thread that's been going on for the entire time I've been on this forum is honestly sickening.

Users who spread such misinformation or support it do not deserve this forum as a platform and should be banned.
I can’t even believe that people who spew disinformation on a constant basis here believe it is equal in any sense of the word to real data. If you really believe that the fruit cakes who post consistently debunked information on a regular basis actually equals the scientific community’s view of the best way to combat the virus, then I don’t think there’s any way to save you from the rabbit hole you’ve decided to jump into. There is nothing equal about the nut jobs putting out untested and unsubstantiated information and the scientific world views that their community’s are following. There’s a reason why the scientific community has a United front, and it’s not some conspiracy to create a new world order. This reminds me of the “every 4 year” nonsense that the right puts out saying that Democrat’s want to take your guns away. It’s absolute nonsense and will never happen.
 

EricEricEric

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Age and sex-specific risks of myocarditis and pericarditis following Covid-19 messenger RNA vaccines


Damage to the heart like this does not magically go away with time, it only get worse over time leading to more issues and a shorter life span.

The sad part is that this demographic is virtually unaffected by C19 and recover 99%+ of the time even without vaccination.

However, they’ve now gambled with their own lives, and we will see this damage unfold slowly over time.
 

MarcelNL

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@EricEricEric A real article, nice for a change....yet I wonder if you tried to interpret what the numbers mean in a country the size of France? Did you verify the death rate due to Covid in that age cohort? I did, and it's not 0 as you seem to believe. FYI, the death rate in France in this age group was some 150 and counting,
The data is readily accessible for everyone.

Is myocarditis a nasty side effect? sure, it's the reason why some vaccines are not administered to some groups, did anyone die of this myocarditis? How many in this age cohort have long term effect of Covid, or wait, did you look up what the incidence of contracting myocarditis due to Covid? Did you compare the severity of their disease burden?

the incidence of myocarditis after Covid vaccination is somewhere around 70 per Million doses Myocarditis Cases Reported After mRNA-Based COVID-19 Vaccination in the US From December 2020 to August 2021

The incidence of myocarditis as side effect of Covid is higher, at 450 per million cases....interestingly it's the same age group that scores big.


Conclusions: Myocarditis (or pericarditis or myopericarditis) from primary COVID19 infection occurred at a rate as high as 450 per million in young males. Young males infected with the virus are up 6 times more likely to develop myocarditis as those who have received the vaccine.

For anyone who believes the risk benefit ratio is not constantly monitored and evaluated:


Do not forget to smell and chew if you're spoon fed even when it's 'data', you may be eating chewy lumps that turn out to have been made of ****.
 

MarcelNL

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Me thinks Covid has become a bit like religion. You believe what you're going to believe.

There are studies that support every point of view. Nobody believes the ones that don't support their views. Everyone thinks that their side is supported by "empirical" evidence. Everyone wonders why everyone doesn't feel the same way they do.

E3 has no monopoly on the "facts" but neither do his naysayers.
the difference is that E3 is consistently using snippets of information taken out of context and using them to illustrate points that are not supported by all of the data...OK with me if that is out of ignorance, or from being naive or being too lazy to look up the facts yet we've IMO far exceeded the point where ignorance or laziness turns into knowingly spreading desinformation.

Shouting 'the earth is flat'does not make it true, no matter how often it is repeated, no matter how many people shout the message. The data on Covid, Vaccines and plenty more is readily available for all with an interest, yes it may take some explaining to be able to interpret it. It took me like 15 minutes to pull some relevant articles in my previous post. If the inability to understand the information was the issue there would be no beef with spreading misinformation, yet one would expect to see the poster start asking questions rather than repeatedly posing solid opinions that defy the bulk of the available scientific data.

On studies that support every point of view? Only when you willingly ignore the breadth of information out there, the scientific community is pretty unanimous on Covid and Vaccination or did you not notice?
 
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Michi

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gregfisk

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All the people with actual expertise except those you dismiss.

Next thing you'll be calling me a heretic cause I don't believe in your religion.

How's that two weeks to flatten the curve working out?
First of all I don’t believe in religion but you are welcome to believe whatever you like. My issue is with people who spread disinformation “like religious people” and harm others along the way.
 

MarcelNL

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I wondered for a while what effect vaccination has on long Covid, and this post made me look it up as it did not mention anything about that, likely because the data is from too early for many folks to have been vaccinated (O wonder of the modern age, all that info is at our fingertips)

Longitudinal study on long Covid:

Long COVID burden and risk factors in 10 UK longitudinal studies and electronic health records

TL;DR: The older someone is, the more likely they are to end up with long Covid. Women are about 50% more likely to get long Covid than men.


smaller study showing a pretty large difference;

MUCH larger study showing a 15% or so reduction in risk of contracting long Covid after being vaccinated, also saying that dropping masks (AKA not wearing one) might not be a great idea.

bottom line; the jury is still out on the absolute incidence rate, outcomes, prevention and/or therapies for long Covid. Yeah it's a mild flu
 

sansho

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well, i finally caught it. symptoms aren't a big deal so far. some nasal congestion, swollen-feeling (but oddly not sore) throat, and fatigue.

i hope i don't get long covid. i need all the cognitive ability i can get :( lol
 
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well, i finally caught it. symptoms aren't a big deal so far. some nasal congestion, swollen-feeling (but oddly not sore) throat, and fatigue.

i hope i don't get long covid. i need all the cognitive ability i can get :( lol
Long covid seems to be a lot less likely with omicron variants, so your odds are good. In general, from many reports and studies it seems like starting with omicron the virus has changed a lot compared to the original and delta. This to some degree creates more confusion when we discuss covid as a whole since symptoms, vaccine effectiveness, consequences can be very different from the beginning of the pandemic to now. Pharma is almost ready with the new vaccines that will target omicron variants specifically, so these hopefully will be more effective at preventing spread and catching the disease.
 

tcmx3

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All the people with actual expertise except those you dismiss.

Next thing you'll be calling me a heretic cause I don't believe in your religion.

How's that two weeks to flatten the curve working out?

You have never provided any of this supposed counter evidence that exists. again, the last time I asked the mask came off instantly and you lost your mind and went on a whole rant about how you don't care about empiricism at all.

I mean this with all due respect, which for you is actual factual zero, you don't have the qualifications to judge anyone's expertise around data.
 
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