Cpm s90v review for kitchen use

[Guirotin]

Hi all,

I learnt a lot recently on steels, and the more i know, the more cpm magnacut and s90v seems to be awesome steels.

I understand that magnacut is a fantastic versatile steel (very well balanced between edge wear and toughness), but s90v seems to held sooo much better an edge, although it is not as tough (like toughness of vg10 in fact) , that i am surprised not to find any more knives made out of it.

So my questions are:
-Is s90v a good steel for chef knives ?
-if yes, why dont we find more knives made out of it ?
-can you sharpen it on shapton glass stones ? Are the vanadium carbides not too hard for these stones ?

Thanks very very much in advance for your answers !

Ps: i did some search on the forum before, but didnt find any topic on it. Sorry if i missed it.

 

[jedy617]

Hi all,

I learnt a lot recently on steels, and the more i know, the more cpm magnacut and s90v seems to be awesome steels.

I understand that magnacut is a fantastic versatile steel (very well balanced between edge wear and toughness), but s90v seems to held sooo much better an edge, although it is not as tough (like toughness of vg10 in fact) , that i am surprised not to find any more knives made out of it.

So my questions are:
-Is s90v a good steel for chef knives ?
-if yes, why dont we find more knives made out of it ?
-can you sharpen it on shapton glass stones ? Are the vanadium carbides not too hard for these stones ?

Thanks very very much in advance for your answers !

Ps: i did some search on the forum before, but didnt find any topic on it. Sorry if i missed it.

To answer your questions:

1. Yes, if you like edge retention it's the shizz.
2. The steel is very expensive raw, and hard to grind and finish. Most chef knife makers like to stick to the easier stuff...although I do know plenty of western makers who won't bat an eye making an s90v chef.
3. Yes you can. Will it be pleasant? No. Do I think you will have a much better time and better edge with diamond or cbn? Yes.

Look up Andreik Markin @Andrei if you want some s90v in your life. Very affordable and just all around amazing knife maker who uses the steel quite often. I have an S90v from him that I love.

 

[Barmoley]

S90v is a good steel for chef knives, but it is very wear resistant, so it is both difficult to make knives out of and difficult to sharpen. You should use diamond or CBN stones for best results.

 

[jedy617]

If you want to get your toes wet without spending a ton on diamond...I like my venev. Could get 2 double sided like these:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1856377519...N9NB1Ay7CoUPuavzHyvivJilI=|tkp:Bk9SR-DDoJvAYQ
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1857512235...oSkl/Zrq1Zqdl+YGt3gzeMHPY=|tkp:Bk9SR-DDoJvAYQ

 

[jedy617]

 

[Guirotin]

Wow, thanks for both of you for answering so fast and precisely !
If i understand well, the difficulty is in the knife making process, but for the final customer, it is a top notch product.

I guess yes, but as i'm here i take the opportunity to ask: can we get an edge as sharp as a w2 carbon steel for example? Or better/less ?

 

[Guirotin]

View attachment 222567
View attachment 222568

Awesome ! I guess at use, it's very good ? Any complaint so far (about the steel itself)

 

[jedy617]

white 2 or real W2? W2 actually has a pretty coarse grain structure iirc. A simple hitachi carbon will probably win out in terms of overall sharpness back to back as with most carbons vs a carbide heavy steel but honestly...I don't think it makes a huge difference with a chef knife (other people may feel very different about that...the more simple stuff def is way better to sharpen). I can get it very sharp, and it holds the edge great. It does best with a toothier edge, I don't take it past 3k, could go even lower to be honest.

No complains about the steel, or the knife. S90v is one of my all time favorites. Well, THE favorite for very high edge retention. Decent amount more edge retention than something like ZDP while being tougher. If you don't have a problem with chipping VG10 or SG2 you will be fine with s90v. It's not tough...but if you are mindful of that, shouldn't present a problem. I use it a ton in my EDC rotation. More than in the kitchen that's for sure.

 

[Guirotin]

Yes, real w2.
I started only recently to really learn about steels, this is how i found this forum and larrin's work. And it was mind blowing for me ah ah. As w2 steel is my go to steel for san mai damascus blade, i take this as reference. Although i now know that there is much better out there.

Thanks for all these explanations and feedback.
I'm now more eager to make a knife out of this steel and test it. My philosophy when making knife is: the best first in terms of use, then aesthetics.

Cheers !

 

[jedy617]

I wish you luck! Didn't realize you were making. Might want to start off with something easier, lots of nice balanced PM steels that have great properties but easier to finish than s90v. CPM154/RWL34, S30v, elmax, XHP, and Vanax all come to mind. Magnacut is great as well of course, I have heard from makers that finishing it is also a pain lol.

 

[Blank Blades.]

S90v is definitely a nice steel.

 

[Blank Blades.]

For finishing. Do yourself a favor and buy diamond microfinishing film. You arent going to be able to get a good hand sanded finish otherwise.

You can likely do alright with a belt finish, but don't expect anything above 120 grit to cut the steel very well. For the high wear resistant steels i pretty much just switch to the diamond film rather than go the belt route. Because the belts that are going to do the best are about 100 dollars a piece vs less than 20 dollars for the microfinishing film.

 

[Troopah_Knives]

white 2 or real W2? W2 actually has a pretty coarse grain structure iirc.

No reason why W2 should have a coarse grain than White 2. If anything it's a bit finer due to the Vanadium addition.

As for S90V. It's good stuff!

 

[blokey]

Talking about CPM stuff, why aren't S35VN/S45VN more popular among US based custom makers? Consider they are now the basic PM steel for EDC knives. Consider SG2 is really popular among Japanese makers, S35VN is basically slightly better SG2.

 

[Blank Blades.]

Idk. I know personally if i wanted to make something with a stainless steel, with good wear resistance, and toughness id choose magnacut rather than the s30v like steels.

 

[blokey]

For today sure, but even 2 years ago there doesn't seem to be many S35VN custom kitchen knives apart from Warther and some small productions. If MagnaCut become the base of stainless PM in Kitchen knife tho I would be pretty happy.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Talking about CPM stuff, why aren't S35VN/S45VN more popular among US based custom makers? Consider they are now the basic PM steel for EDC knives. Consider SG2 is really popular among Japanese makers, S35VN is basically slightly better SG2.

Of course I can only speculate but first, probably because so many of them and their customers (us) like carbon steels. Regardless of individual flavors, it seems the carbons far outnumber the stainless, just like in Japanese knives.

For stainless in kitchen cutlery, AEB-L is pretty darned attractive all around and no doubt why it seems to lead the western-stainless pack. I really don't think it's too much of a compromise.

The "S-family" of PM steels is also where you start needing harder abrasives and this might turn off a lot of customers and make it not worth messing with them for the maker.

Just pondering is all.

Walther and North Arm both use PM steels but don't seem overly popular.

 

[Blank Blades.]

That, and also. I know if im paying for a custom myself, id probably just want to go straight to the 10v, 15v, s90v etc. Kind of stuff.

Thats just personal taste though. So i really can't say for others

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I'll add this too @blokey. I'm not sure how familiar you are with the EDC crowd but they will drop four plus bills on multiple pocket knives and absolutely scoff at using a nice knife in the kitchen. In fact a lot of them just use a cheaper pocket knife or fixed blade.

They'll completely geek out over a steel in a folder but pay no attention to it in a kitchen knife, with some even professing it to be a waste.

It's an interesting dynamic for sure. Not all of course, but those unfamiliar may be surprised at how little so many in the EDC world couldn't care less about their kitchen cutlery.

 

[blokey]

I'll add this too @blokey. I'm not sure how familiar you are with the EDC crowd but they will drop four plus bills on multiple pocket knives and absolutely scoff at using a nice knife in the kitchen. In fact a lot of them just use a cheaper pocket knife or fixed blade.

They'll completely geek out over a steel in a folder but pay no attention to it in a kitchen knife, with some even professing it to be a waste.

It's an interesting dynamic for sure. Not all of course, but those unfamiliar may be surprised at little so many in the EDC world couldn't care less about their kitchen cutlery.

Yeah I find that interesting too, personally I use kitchen knife alot more tho I still have some EDC knife I consider to be pretty nice, a para 3 lw in BD1N and para 2 in cru-wear, couple carbon Mora, I’m not a fancy handle guy so I probably won’t drop money for nicer scales ,I do see the benefits tho.

 

[user 16756]

I'll add this too @blokey. I'm not sure how familiar you are with the EDC crowd but they will drop four plus bills on multiple pocket knives and absolutely scoff at using a nice knife in the kitchen. In fact a lot of them just use a cheaper pocket knife or fixed blade.

They'll completely geek out over a steel in a folder but pay no attention to it in a kitchen knife, with some even professing it to be a waste.

It's an interesting dynamic for sure. Not all of course, but those unfamiliar may be surprised at little so many in the EDC world couldn't care less about their kitchen cutlery.

to be fair for a lot of people pocket knives are jewelry. nothing wrong with that btw, but it's the reality.

 

[jedy617]

No reason why W2 should have a coarse grain than White 2. If anything it's a bit finer due to the Vanadium addition.

As for S90V. It's good stuff!

Ah interesting I thought it was coarse and not very tough kinda like 1095. I don't pay too much attention to the lower alloy stuff

 

[Blank Blades.]

Hot take, at least for this forum. But i don't like 1095 and o1 at all.

 

[coxhaus]

Hot take, at least for this forum. But i don't like 1095 and o1 at all.

The only good thing you can say about 1095 is that it will bend instead of breaking like a lot of super steels. Some people consider this tough.
I guess a bent knife is better than a broken knife.

 

[Guirotin]

very interesting your conversation!

For finishing. Do yourself a favor and buy diamond microfinishing film. You arent going to be able to get a good hand sanded finish otherwise.

You can likely do alright with a belt finish, but don't expect anything above 120 grit to cut the steel very well. For the high wear resistant steels i pretty much just switch to the diamond film rather than go the belt route. Because the belts that are going to do the best are about 100 dollars a piece vs less than 20 dollars for the microfinishing film.

Thanks very much for the tips!!
I'll give it a try

 

[canadianknives]

I'm currently playing with CPM Steel's for Kitchen cutlery. (CPM S30, CPM S35, CPM S90, CPM M4, CPM D2, CPM Cruwear) to name a few.
Finishing S90v is a pain and expensive in raw steel and abrasives.

 

[M1k3]

The only good thing you can say about 1095 is that it will bend instead of breaking like a lot of super steels. Some people consider this tough.
I guess a bent knife is better than a broken knife.

52100 and AEB-L are much less likely to break than 1095.

 

[coxhaus]

52100 and AEB-L are much less likely to break than 1095.

I don't know but 1095 is an old steel used for car springs, saw blades, and hand tools.

 

[M1k3]

I don't know but 1095 is an old steel used for car springs, saw blades, and hand tools.

CHARTS FROM Knife Steel Nerds, NOT MY OWN

Chart with toughness of 52100 and 1095.

Chart with 52100 and AEB-L toughness.

5160 was also commonly used for springs. But I guess any simple carbon steel would be tough enough with a thick enough cross section.

 

[MSicardCutlery]

Same source. Higher hardness range

https://i1.wp.com/knifesteelnerds.c...2/09/apexultra-zoom-toughness.png?w=745&ssl=1