Custom Honyaki Gyuto

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hanson279

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Been collecting knives for a while now and have been lurking in the forums ever since. I feel now is the time to get myself something special and hopefully convince myself this will be my last (at least for a little while). I have narrowed it down to either a B #1 or #2 steel 240mm honyaki gyuto made by Togashi/Tosa combo or Ikeda (don't know which sharpeners in which brand to go by). I'd like it taller at 53mm heel to spine with a convex grind tailored to the geometry of the edge. I should mention I'm right-handed but don't care too much about the geometry as long as it does not steer. I'd like the knife thin enough to not have wedging problems on onions, potatoes, etc (taking into account the 53mm height) but still robust. Part of me wants to say just let the artisan do what they feel is best as long as they can fit the 53 mm criteria but another part of me says I should at least have a general guideline or even specify down to the core. So my question is, which smith & sharpener to go for, which steel type, and finally how should I communicate my needs to the middleman?
 
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I wouldnt worry to much about smith or sharpener to be honest. Just tell one of the trusted vendors carrying honyaki pretty nuch what you said here in terms of what you are looking for and see what they come back with.
 
What else do you have in the collection? Of that what is your current favorite thats closest to what you just described?
 
Wdestate said:
I wouldnt worry to much about smith or sharpener to be honest. Just tell one of the trusted vendors carrying honyaki pretty nuch what you said here in terms of what you are looking for and see what they come back with.
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That is a route I don't plan to go as far too often 53 mm is a hit or miss, or the aesthetics are off, mixed reviews, or just overall missing some element I'm looking for.
 
Checkpure said:
What else do you have in the collection? Of that what is your current favorite thats closest to what you just described?
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My current collection is all over the place but with a blue SS clad Toyama, SLD konosuke, Kramer carbon euroline, Kurosaki VG-10 fujin and some others I have sold/traded. I'd have to say I love my Toyama with the thick spine, thin edge, height, weight, distal taper, and overall profile I guess. I also don't want a carbon copy of my Toyama hence the question. My goal is to create a mismatch of sorts with recommendations from all the knowledgeable people here.
 
hanson279 said:
That is a route I don't plan to go as far too often 53 mm is a hit or miss, or the aesthetics are off, mixed reviews, or just overall missing some element I'm looking for.
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I use to play the game of smith and sharpener and have peobably had 20+ honyaki ive used professionaly at somw point or another By the end i realized finding a great vendor such as Jon at JKI or james at KnS that can understand what exactly you are looking for is a very good thjng to have. I have custom ordered from people within japan and personally as a non japanese speaking person it was always less then ideal. Not to mention at least where i purchased getting that extra 3mm on the height had me waiting 9 montbs and paying 20% more
 
While I understand why the recommendations for an established line of honyaki's are coming from, it is hard to find what I want. I have already talked to multiple vendors about my needs and 90% time ends up being out of stock with a similar weight vs a custom or multiple compromises being made. I would be lying if I said having a custom honyaki with a good pedigree doesn't have a certain appeal as well. Getting a custom was certainly not my first route but this is the route I'm taking now.
 
Yeah, what Wdestate said. . .the vendors know how the smith's HT are like, and how consistent or thin/fat the grinders like to do blades. Whether that happens to be a particular smith/sharpening combo will come up later if it matches your wants. Like if you wanted it to be on the well-balanced side of things, or just sharp and thin . . .glassy or easy to sharpen, etc.

Or if you just want a particular combo regardless of what the vendor has seen to be good, then that's fine I guess. At least in the Sakai system of vendors/craftsmen. I agree that these things are often out of stock. . . the supply is very very inelastic. The english speaking vendors with good relations can probably be more upfront about lead time and craftsmen tendencies . . . language barriers are cumbersome quite a bit when things get complicated.
 
I don't quite understand. You want a very specific custom but you want the forum to tell you the specifics aside from heel height?
Even if you would exactly know what you want and find someone who's willing to do it. I feel the chances that you will actually receive what you imagined arent the best. I would rather try something you know has a decent resell value and just try a few different knives and sell them if you don't like them this way you'll also learn more about the knives you would otherwise only read about....
 
Maybe it wasn’t clear what I wanted in my post. My question basically boils down to how should I should get my point across over than the specific measurements. Should I just say I want a thick spine thin edge convex grind or do I go into even more details? Ikeda or Togashi? B1 or B2? Any general pointers for ordering customs as well as some knife characteristics I might have mixed will also be welcome. I don’t mind taking a chance on a custom. I’ve played around with what I feel is enough knives to get a preference for what I like and dislike so I want to try my hand on a custom.
 
I think convex and thin behind the edge is a bit vague, since that's kind of the standard you'd expect from most Japanese knives anyways.
It would probably be better to give exact measurements if you find someone who's willing to accept such an order...
On a side note...
It would be way easier to ask a western maker who does honyakis and specializes in custom orders
 
I guess I can go measure my edges and spines and find a range for what I would prefer. I don't have experience ordering customs from Japan. Do they usually not accept such specific requests? I was also debating just saying give me a 53 mm knife and let the smith and sharpener do the rest. As for custom makers, any recommendations either Japanese or western?
 
I agree with @Eloh and @Wdestate ...

The wet-blanket-but-true perspective:
Buy and try more knives to help really dial in your tastes and the specific attributes that you value.

The have-fun perspective:
Western maker. Here, you could have more input (grind, profile, height, balance point, etc.), easier communication, and call the handle material/construction and steel. All for about the same price as a honyaki, if not less. You may or may not want to try a few more knives to settle on the specifics of your preferences before diving in with a custom maker.

The hope-for-the-best perspective:
See what's up with requesting a custom from the makers you mention. Have you found a middle-man yet? If so, hope it was through a trustworthy contact.
I think some have gotten customs from Japan--IIRC mostly just a little taller + a little thinner. I don't think it's particularly easy. There has also been some discussion about how it can be frowned upon (viewed as essentially communicating that a maker's work and decisions have room for improvement). I've never done it. I'm not planning on trying. Maybe I'm wrong about all of this and should try...

TLDR, if you're set on having a honyaki ASAP and want a good deal of input about its characteristics, most signs point to a wester maker. A few signs point to a WTB on BST, which would be much quicker (and you could also have a nice discussion with the seller).
 
panda said:
why do you want a honyaki, and what are you expecting out of one?
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On a practical note, I'm not expecting anything out of a honyaki that I can't get with a regular clad or monosteel. On a personal note, I appreciate the work, aesthetics, and craftsmanship going into the knife. With that in mind, I want something tailored to me and maybe even a little sentimental. I'm not jumping into this having touched my first Victorinox fibrox expecting a knife that will slice through the earth. All I want is something that can keep me away from knives for a while that is personalized for my taste.
 
I would recommend Mert Tansu as a Western Maker to talk about a custom.
 
I'd go with a western maker . . . a lotta Japanese honyaki gyuto can be chonk. . . at least some ikeda honyaki gyuto I've held. Very convex, but not thin behind the edge. Maybe ask shihan? He's english speaking, but worked in Sakai, so it fits both bills (western and can customize and Japanese methods). Or even maybe Harbeer at hscIII
 
You're setting yourself up for disappointment with these criteria. Like others have said, just work with an established knife shop to find something you like.

Also, side note, can everyone here just jump off the specific sharpener and smith wagon? It's so tired and it's problematic on a number of levels.
 
hanson279 said:
Been collecting knives for a while now and have been lurking in the forums ever since. I feel now is the time to get myself something special and hopefully convince myself this will be my last (at least for a little while). I have narrowed it down to either a B #1 or #2 steel 240mm honyaki gyuto made by Togashi/Tosa combo or Ikeda (don't know which sharpeners in which brand to go by). I'd like it taller at 53mm heel to spine with a convex grind tailored to the geometry of the edge. I should mention I'm right-handed but don't care too much about the geometry as long as it does not steer. I'd like the knife thin enough to not have wedging problems on onions, potatoes, etc (taking into account the 53mm height) but still robust. Part of me wants to say just let the artisan do what they feel is best as long as they can fit the 53 mm criteria but another part of me says I should at least have a general guideline or even specify down to the core. So my question is, which smith & sharpener to go for, which steel type, and finally how should I communicate my needs to the middleman?
Click to expand...

Hi. Why do you desire a honyaki? Honest question. Just curious about what it is about a honyaki that makes it the eye of your apple; what are the characteristics of honyaki that you need in your kitchen, collection, etc. Are you after performance, investment, kitchen bling? All valid. Which honyakis have you used that make them rock your boat?

What’s your maximum budget?

How did you narrow down your choices when you said the following? “I have narrowed it down to either a B #1 or #2 steel 240mm honyaki gyuto made by Togashi/Tosa combo or Ikeda” Have you tried both blues and the makers you’ve mentioned?

Have you considered a lower priced honyaki like Munetoshi to get your feet wet? Or maybe thought of going with a western maker like Isasmedjan, Halcyon or Evan to do a honyaki?

TBH, in the decade or so I’ve been buying J-knives, honyakis have never appealed to me.

I agree with @Wdestate, building a relationship, talking and conveying your needs to a trusted vendor is a good step—they’ll often have access to makers that most people don’t—a lot of makers don’t want to deal with bespoke requests of individual customers.

Best of luck in your search!
 
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DitmasPork said:
Hi. Why do you desire a honyaki? Honest question. Just curious about what it is about a honyaki that makes it the eye of your apple; what are the characteristics of honyaki that you need in your kitchen, collection, etc. Are you after performance, investment, kitchen bling? All valid. Which honyakis have you used that make them rock your boat?

What’s your maximum budget?

How did you narrow down your choices when you said the following? “I have narrowed it down to either a B #1 or #2 steel 240mm honyaki gyuto made by Togashi/Tosa combo or Ikeda” Have you tried both blues and the makers you’ve mentioned?

Have you considered a lower priced honyaki like Munetoshi to get your feet wet? Or maybe thought of going with a western maker like Isasmedjan, Halcyon or Evan to do a honyaki?

TBH, in the decade or so I’ve been buying J-knives, honyakis have never appealed to me.

I agree with @Wdestate, building a relationship, talking and conveying your needs to a trusted vendor is a good step—they’ll often have access to makers that most people don’t—a lot of makers don’t want to deal with bespoke requests of individual customers.

Best of luck in your search!
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have you tried mizuno honyaki? 😉
 
lemeneid said:
Just get a Toyanabe honyaki. Best practical use honyaki around hands down. Don’t dick around with makers and specs if you don’t even know what you want or how to convey it, that usually ends in disaster.
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Another good answer imo 😉
 
panda said:
ahh yeah highly righty bias. I had the white, regular profile.
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I’ve looked at Miz, but all the talk of righty bias doused my enthusiasm. The price point of many honyakis are too much for me to justify—my non-honyaki knives great for whatever kitchen needs. If I had 1.2k burning in my pocket, prob rather spend it on a Maz dammy blue.
 
DitmasPork said:
Hi. Why do you desire a honyaki? Honest question. Just curious about what it is about a honyaki that makes it the eye of your apple; what are the characteristics of honyaki that you need in your kitchen, collection, etc. Are you after performance, investment, kitchen bling? All valid. Which honyakis have you used that make them rock your boat?

What’s your maximum budget?

How did you narrow down your choices when you said the following? “I have narrowed it down to either a B #1 or #2 steel 240mm honyaki gyuto made by Togashi/Tosa combo or Ikeda” Have you tried both blues and the makers you’ve mentioned?

Have you considered a lower priced honyaki like Munetoshi to get your feet wet? Or maybe thought of going with a western maker like Isasmedjan, Halcyon or Evan to do a honyaki?

TBH, in the decade or so I’ve been buying J-knives, honyakis have never appealed to me.

I agree with @Wdestate, building a relationship, talking and conveying your needs to a trusted vendor is a good step—they’ll often have access to makers that most people don’t—a lot of makers don’t want to deal with bespoke requests of individual customers.

Best of luck in your search!
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Sound advice. As an aside, I got my Togashi-Tosa blue1 Honyaki from K&S Australia- they had multiple ones for sale, I got the cheapest one
 
lemeneid said:
Just get a Toyanabe honyaki. Best practical use honyaki around hands down. Don’t dick around with makers and specs if you don’t even know what you want or how to convey it, that usually ends in disaster.
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Question is where to get a Toyama Honyaki - I have been looking for 2 years
 
RockyBasel said:
Sound advice. As an aside, I got my Togashi-Tosa blue1 Honyaki from K&S Australia- they had multiple ones for sale, I got the cheapest one
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What's the cheapest 240 honyaki on the market? The Munetoshi is 4000dkk; Kaeru is 5200dkk.
 
And I think both of them are going to be fantastic - only going by the reviews here

You could also pick up a Dalman Honyaki!
 
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