Custom maker refused my business

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FoolClone

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The lead-up is, I've been following said maker for over a year and for the most part I didn't plan on getting any of his stuff. I felt his knives were not in my lane aesthetically, financially, etcetera. About a month ago I decided to shift the sourcing of my knives from Japan to the west- European and American makers, and suddenly this guy was top of my list. Second to none. I'd grown to like his profiles, and a new appreciation to how he approaches his grinds was instructed to me by way of just communicating with knife people and reading the forums. He knows his stuff, for sure.
So I hang on waiting for my chance to snag. I'm looking at pictures, looking for demos I might have missed, I'm picturing how this thing fits on my magnet, you know the drill. The time finally comes and I place my new baby firmly into the cart just to see -
does not ship to israel.png

Following this, obviously, I reach out. Since this is someone with whom I've spoken with in the past I thought I'd at least get some form of an answer. His was to keep silent and, also, he'd removed the function which let me know if and when he saw messages from me.
I'd like to pass this incident into discussion, but before that, some points:
1. My goal here is not to get political. But if I were, just for quick lap: I don't get up in the morning and think "Gee, what a find day to conquer". I think about how to make the most out of any day as any man would. I did not choose where I've been born, such as the majority of people. I live in a democracy with ****** political players and amazing cuisine. I'm not less deserving of a knife on account of my regionality or nationality, I think.
2. That's why if this was only a shipping thing, I'd like to think they'd have let me know. But my country was listed in the drop-down (with basically every other state in the world) which makes me think it was placed there without the maker ever intending of commuting his works here. That said the cost of shipping and importation makes for a fraction of the cost of the product itself.
3. This makes me feel negative emotions. I know this is essentially like a really expensive spilt milk, but it's the bother of not knowing which makes it uncomfortable to consider.

This is probably not the first of such incidences. It stung for me because I really started to feel for the craft this person brings to the world, which I apparently am excluded from obtaining directly. What's your take on this? Has this happened to you? Do you, as a merchant commit to a similar working philosophy? Do you think it's underhanded, or simply justified? Are there really people who prefer handle-heavy knives? Please, discuss
 
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Ahh the smell of another glorious thread with distant notes of a previous JML vent about another vendor. As much as I would love to stick around and continue to serenade myself in this lustrous scent I must not.

Let me just save you the drama. Users here believe that it's a 2 way street. Just like us "users" have the ability to bash and defame vendors they also have the right to run their business as seemed fit. It sucks, I know. You didn't get a knife. We have all been there.
 
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Without knowing the makers logic, it’s not fair to say this stemmed from hate towards a religion or country. With that said, maybe assume the best, that this maker has a legitimate reason for their business practices. This way you can still feel good about his work and procure it on the secondary market.

If you can’t get over it, there are always other makers out there. Sure it may not feel great now but there are other great makers who would be happy to work with you, provided you’re a cool guy.
 

jwthaparc

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Idk if any of this information necessarily outright says, antisemitism, or even political bias. There may be quite a few other countries they don't ship to, but they don't list that outright. Just like it didn't directly say they don't ship to Israel.

I mean, I'm just trying to give the benefit of the doubt.
 

daveb

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Mod hat off. Just a member's opinion.

If I were a maker (ha!) and I shipped a knife to someone in xyz country. And xyz confiscated it, overtaxed it, lost it, or in any way made the deal sour for me - then I would not ship to xyz again. And while I would give an explanation of why, another maker may not feel any obligation to do so. And that's ok.

No reason to attribute motives to something you know little if anything about. No reason to think it's all about you.

The problem with knives is there are so many makers, and too little time. (Not saying a little more coin wouldn't be good as well) Move on.
 

esoo

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As I reside in Canada, I use the Canada Post guidelines on what is restricted when mailing to another country. The guidelines for Israel are here:

And right there on the prohibited list is knives.

As @daveb stated, the maker in question may have learned this the hard way already. As well, as many makers are using pre-made shopping cart systems, they may not have gone through (or had the expertise) to customize the country list.
 
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Let’s try to cut OP some slack here. He’s a new member and this is one of his first posts. Everyone should get at least one mulligan.

While he may not be justified to assume anti-semitism in this case, I’m willing to bet he has his reasons for potentially being hyper sensitive to anything that may seem to be so.
 

zizirex

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Maybe the country of the maker dont have a diplomatic relationship so they can’t ship it?

or they just don’t ship to some area of the country. I remember there are some shops that don’t ship to certain area.
 

big_adventure

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Just a chime in:

1. As @esoo points out above, shipping knives to Isreal is apparently problematic. As to why it appears as a destination in a website, well, most knifemakers aren't, I know you'll all find this shocking, expert web designers. The overwhelming majority are using off-the-shelf ecommerce solutions, and most of those have pre-populated lists of countries in the cart product. The maker in question probably doesn't know how to remove those options, but DOES have a list of approved destinations that only blocks after you click "buy."

2. For the lack of reply, well, for me that would be an automatic "I don't want to work with this vendor." I've been refused on a couple of custom requests, but, fortunately for my self-esteem, they have been polite explanations that the maker in question's list is full. In one case, I bought a knife from the very maker (the infallibly polite @KAMON Knives ) off of BST (the Buy - Sell - Trade forum here at KKF). If you still want a blade from the maker, put a WTB post on BST. There are a lot of collectors on here with massive numbers of knives who churn through them and are constantly opening space in the collection or cash for new kit. They may not even be thinking of selling that particular piece until you ask them.

Good luck!
 

Jville

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Who is the maker? It’s not like you are putting him on blast. No one really is upset about him not shipping there. It’s not like it’s going to negatively affect him. But I am curious to see.
 

Delat

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Let’s try to cut OP some slack here. He’s a new member and this is one of his first posts. Everyone should get at least one mulligan.

While he may not be justified to assume anti-semitism in this case, I’m willing to bet he has his reasons for potentially being hyper sensitive to anything that may seem to be so.

I agree with @Bico Doce here, let’s cut the new guy some slack. I’m sure some people boycott Israel - I believe that’s a thing. However I do think it’s a bit defensive to take it personally. For example if a vendor wanted to boycott the US I wouldn’t be offended. They’re boycotting the country due to government policies, not you personally.

But I’m glad @esoo did a little detective work to find a very reasonable explanation. I suspect most knife makers are just trying to make a living and don’t have time for politics.
 

JBroida

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i cant speak to the lack of communication, but we have a variety of places we don't ship to for various reasons (i.e. state department asks not to ship to specific places, issues with customs and duties, regulations based on contracts we have with vendors, over the top reporting requirements that require excessive time to be compliant, etc). Sometimes it just is what it is.
 

tcmx3

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Let’s try to cut OP some slack here. He’s a new member and this is one of his first posts. Everyone should get at least one mulligan.

While he may not be justified to assume anti-semitism in this case, I’m willing to bet he has his reasons for potentially being hyper sensitive to anything that may seem to be so.

well the OP didnt explicitly say it as much as imply that might be the case. but not shipping to Israel, whether it's just a matter of laws & such or political ideology, is hard to construe as anti-semitism even cynically.

since this issue touches on my heritage directly, I'd like to offer a clarification in case anyone isn't clear more generally. Israeli != Jewish. you can be one without the other and I'd bet 100 dollars this maker would ship the knife to me living here in the US
 

blokey

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This was true for Xerxes for many years, refusing to ship to the USA.
I thought it was due to the risk involved with international shipping, a lot of vendors simply refuse to ship over the Atlantic.
 

Jason183

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I don’t see the “maker refused to sell you knife”, all I see is just shipping problems.

As a buyer, this have never happened to me before, But if I’m you as soon as I see the “No shipping to current country” then I won’t even bother sending emails asking why.

If I really want his Knife so bad, I’ll just post a WTB thread in B/S/T, and keep researching on web stores liked EBay etc see if other PPL sells them.
 
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well the OP didnt explicitly say it as much as imply that might be the case. but not shipping to Israel, whether it's just a matter of laws & such or political ideology, is hard to construe as anti-semitism even cynically.

since this issue touches on my heritage directly, I'd like to offer a clarification in case anyone isn't clear more generally. Israeli != Jewish. you can be one without the other and I'd bet 100 dollars this maker would ship the knife to me living here in the US
Thanks for adding some more insight. I did make some assumptions on my own, one of them was wrongly equating being anti-israel with being anti-semitic. If I read into his original post too much and drew conclusions he didn't intend to be drawn, then I do apologize.

I do feel some of the comments were harsh. OP came to the forum to vent a bit (probably not anticipating he would be called out) because he was feeling excluded. Some choose to respond to him harshly here, which probably has made him feel unwelcome and to some degree excluded from participating on this forum. Why add to his pain? IMO there are better ways to help someone gain more perspective or broaden their understanding.
 

Corradobrit1

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I thought it was due to the risk involved with international shipping, a lot of vendors simply refuse to ship over the Atlantic.
Exactly, Jannis boycotted USA shipments due to liability issues, not because of an underlying dislike for 'muricans.
 
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