Do you use a roasting pan first and then transfer to the pressure cooker?
Dark Beef Stock for French Onion Soup
- Thread starter coxhaus
- Start date
Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:
Stock making with me is more like sharpening, it's just something I do all the time when it needs doing. I don't get obsessive over it.
Mostly, the bones come off roasts. I usuallly char some fresh veg (often by sauteing in the pot) and roast any raw bones/meat (sometimes, not always). I'm mostly making stock as a cooking ingredient, not to stand alone. Sometimes I do the whole shebang, but not too often.
If you have veggie stock on hand, that'd be good to add to over reduced stock, instead of water.
Chips
Senior Member
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2012
- Messages
- 426
- Reaction score
- 1,011
Can you describe your labeling method? It's interesting! I see a lot of "11's"
11 means it’s a November batch. Lots of bones around thanksgiving. If it’s made from one principal ingredient ie, capon, etc I label it specifically. if it’s made from a mixed bag of bones it’s just called stock. I’ll probably use 4-5 of these over the course of a week
the label maker is fiddly to label a dozen little containers (I hate the tape backing) but I won’t ever give it up. Makes the whole process feel like you have an easy to use product as the end result.
I gave one of those label makers to an ex gf as a housewarming present. I had the distinct feeling that if I ever gave her something that thoughtful when we dated we’d still be together.
the label maker is fiddly to label a dozen little containers (I hate the tape backing) but I won’t ever give it up. Makes the whole process feel like you have an easy to use product as the end result.
I gave one of those label makers to an ex gf as a housewarming present. I had the distinct feeling that if I ever gave her something that thoughtful when we dated we’d still be together.
Last edited:
+1 to RickB's pressure cooker (IMO / better yield, considerably shorter time, clearer stock, etc. - broth or stock)
FWIW / I also "freeze" in the plastic containers but after the stock is frozen I remove it and a vac seal ... a quick dunk in hot water releases them very easily and then the shape is maintained. My chest freezer looks remarkably similar to Rick's ...
I will have to keep my eye out for any local domino throwing butchers to make friends with ... LOL ...
FWIW / I also "freeze" in the plastic containers but after the stock is frozen I remove it and a vac seal ... a quick dunk in hot water releases them very easily and then the shape is maintained. My chest freezer looks remarkably similar to Rick's ...
I will have to keep my eye out for any local domino throwing butchers to make friends with ... LOL ...
It is a cold day for Texas as it is 29 degrees F. So, I am roasting bones again. Do you think I can get away with half this many bones? My pot is 10 quarts. I am not going to let the water cook off this time so I end up with more than 1 quart of stock.
I have a 16 quart pot that I could transfer to for boiling since I have so many bones. What do you think?
The second picture is after roasting the bones and starting the boil. Let me know if I am doing it wrong. I am tired of buying stock that is not very good.
I added 5 quarts of water to start. I hope to get 3 or 4 quarts of stock.
It has been cooking for 1 hour of 10.
I have a 16 quart pot that I could transfer to for boiling since I have so many bones. What do you think?
The second picture is after roasting the bones and starting the boil. Let me know if I am doing it wrong. I am tired of buying stock that is not very good.
I added 5 quarts of water to start. I hope to get 3 or 4 quarts of stock.
It has been cooking for 1 hour of 10.
Last edited:
The absolute quantity of bones doesn't really matter; the ratio of bones to water does. I don't know that I'd use less than that though, at least in that pot. They're pretty spread out in there, so even barely covering them with water won't yield a super flavorful stock.
Using my best judgement I'd A) use a smaller pot or B) use more bones.
I like to have the bones all nestled up a little more personally, add my veg and fill with water about 3-5 inches above my ingredients.
I guess if it seems too thin after boiling for a while, I have the last 1 quart I made with more bones and a little tomato paste I could add as I think it is too thick and rich to use. I need to dilute it.
Ok it is a 10 quart pot and I added 5 quarts of water and the pot is full. Is that a good ratio?
Last time I used 50% more bones. My wife thought the tomato paste concentrated too much as it cooked down last time. It was cooked down to 1 quart so I am trying to avoid that this time.
Last edited:
I have a Dominoes friend that butchers his own cattle so I get the bones for free. It really doesn't matter to me other than I would like to end up with several quarts of good tasting stock.
He brought me a dozen packages of bones. I used 2 packages for this stock.
He brought me a dozen packages of bones. I used 2 packages for this stock.
Looks to me you ought to have twice the meat and bones and three times the vegetables. And as long as you're browning the bones, why not brown the vegetables, too? All it would do is add more flavor.
I am going to try and roast the bones in my large cast iron pan to see if they darken better. I fill it up with vegies with onions first. I guess I will try 450 to 475 degrees maybe even 500. I don't know if the made-in pot will take 500 degrees if I push that high.
I posted this under the other beef stock thread. I added my second set of roasted bones and switched to a larger pot. I boiled again for 10 hours. The stock is much better. I think using the cast iron pan is the way to go. I ended up with almost a gallon of stock.
So I pulled out the bones and added them to the stock pot and instant pot. I was deglazing the fond and I noticed the fond in the copper pan is beautiful. When I tried on the carbon steel pan the fond is black ugly and I am thinking maybe don't use it. I understand the lust after copper pan. It has the most beautiful deglaze. So, I poured out the deglaze in the carbon steel pan.
I had a little Pinot Noir wine left from the other night. I added warm water and filled the wine bottle up and used it to deglaze the hot pans.
I used convection the whole time in the oven. I did not want to warp any pans, so I started the oven at 225 degrees and let the bones thaw for an hour or so in the oven. I stirred the bones and they looked thawed, so I then raised the temp to 460 degrees for around an hour or until they smell good. I never took the bones out of the oven until they were finished cooking except for a quick stir.
I had a little Pinot Noir wine left from the other night. I added warm water and filled the wine bottle up and used it to deglaze the hot pans.
I used convection the whole time in the oven. I did not want to warp any pans, so I started the oven at 225 degrees and let the bones thaw for an hour or so in the oven. I stirred the bones and they looked thawed, so I then raised the temp to 460 degrees for around an hour or until they smell good. I never took the bones out of the oven until they were finished cooking except for a quick stir.
Last edited:
So, thinking about this I would say carbon steel is not good for this task. My cast iron pan worked the last time though not as good as my new copper pan. Next time I may try my new All Clad LTD 14-inch fry pan and my copper pan. I don't plan to use the carbon steel pan anymore for roasting bones.
Last edited:
Sheet trays work really good for roasting bones also.
Yes, i will try sheet pans and see how well the deglazing works. Maybe sheet pans next time.
I am not sure why the cast iron works, and the carbon steel does not. It must be the cast iron thickness, but I don't really know.
I am not sure why the cast iron works, and the carbon steel does not. It must be the cast iron thickness, but I don't really know.
Last edited:
So, this is the best beef broth I have made. It smelled the best the whole time I was canning it. It tastes good but there is no salt except for my wife's instant pot. She added salt and a few other things. I kept mine basic. The jars with blue labels were hers as they were finished yesterday. I should have beef broth for a while.
johnvburke100
Active Member
I make stock (chicken from ancient stewing hens sold at the Asian supermarket, beef from shanks and bones) using 1 onion and that's it. If i use salt then I'm liable to wind up with an over-salted sauce later on, because other sauce ingredients are salty Likewise the other good stuff--wine, other veggies, tomato paste. All wonderful but I don't want to commit to that flavor profile every time I incorporate stock in something. Not surprisingly, I get mildly reproached for under-seasoning, and it's a fair cop, but I'll take it over over-seasoning.
Beef bones, roast them to a good colour, take from the oven and brush with a thin layer of tomato paste. Return to oven until blackened.
It will give a nice colour to the final stock.
If you want to up the umami you can dust with milk powder - milk powder is high in protein, which when browned will add to the umami hit.
You know how when you ar simmering stock for hours on end the house / kitchen fills with aroma? that's aroma escaping the stock; there are not unlimited numbers of aroma molecules, you are releasing a lot of them - try using a pressure cooker instead - literally keeping the lid on the escaping aroma molecules. It will cut the cooking time, give a better aroma, achieve a better maillard reaction = better stock.
Heston made a short film about making a chicken consommé; the same principles apply to beef stock.
Enjoy
It will give a nice colour to the final stock.
If you want to up the umami you can dust with milk powder - milk powder is high in protein, which when browned will add to the umami hit.
You know how when you ar simmering stock for hours on end the house / kitchen fills with aroma? that's aroma escaping the stock; there are not unlimited numbers of aroma molecules, you are releasing a lot of them - try using a pressure cooker instead - literally keeping the lid on the escaping aroma molecules. It will cut the cooking time, give a better aroma, achieve a better maillard reaction = better stock.
Heston made a short film about making a chicken consommé; the same principles apply to beef stock.
Enjoy
Chips
Senior Member
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2012
- Messages
- 426
- Reaction score
- 1,011
Link to the Heston video? Sounds interesting.
