Durability Testing Shi.Han (AKA Ginrei) 240 Gyuto

Discussion in 'Sharpening Station' started by stringer, Jul 20, 2019.

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  1. Jul 20, 2019 #1

    stringer

    stringer

    stringer

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    I bought this knife a few weeks ago on a whim from Strata in Portland, ME. I picked this gal up and decided she needed to come home with me. In this thread I will detail how I prepare a knife for use in a professional kitchen.


    Specs Before Sharpening:
    Edge, Heel to Point, 247.5 mm
    Spine, Handle to Point, 265 mm
    Handle, 140 mm
    OAL, 405 mm
    Height at Heel, 55.9 mm
    Spine, Thickness at Handle, 4.7 mm
    Spine, Thickness at Heel, 3.9 mm
    Spine, Thickness at Midpoint, 2.5 mm
    Spine, Thickness 1 mm from Point, .8 mm
    Thickness 10 mm behind edge at Midpoint, 1 mm
    Mass, 229 g
    61.5 HRC
    52100 Monosteel
    Hammered Kurouchi Finish



    IMG_20190719_180852.jpg


    I gave the factory edge a week of home use. I wanted to get a feel for the knife and figure out how reactive it is. It started to pick up some patina. The factory micro bevel is very conservative. Kind of the opposite of the Watanabe approach. That Gyuto started off with a zero edge, s-grind. This has a pretty high v-grind with very slight convexity. And then a chunky microbevel.

    IMG_20190719_180918.jpg

    My goal is to get rid of the micro bevel and establish a nice flat wide bevel that I can use as a sharpening road for the life of the knife. Through progressive sharpenings I will keep making that blade road steeper and the blade thinner until I start to see issues. Then I will add a micro bevel and slowly thicken it up until I hit a nice sweet spot between aggression and durability.

    I applied some Sharpie so you could see what I was doing
    IMG_20190719_181247.jpg

    I started sharpening with my Crystolon coarse oil stone. I start by focusing about halfway up the Sharpie mark. The micro bevel becomes very obvious. I do one side and then the other.

    IMG_20190719_181721.jpg

    Once I get that established on both sides then I go a little flatter. Targeting the entire Sharpie mark.

    IMG_20190719_182255.jpg

    IMG_20190719_183433.jpg

    Once I get to how far up I want to go, I shift my finger pressure down close to the edge and begin focusing on getting rid of the factory micro bevel and establish a burr. I continue working back and forth adding a little mineral oil here and there and occasionally reconditioning the surface with a big coarse hardware store silicon carbide stone.

    IMG_20190719_184026.jpg


    To Be Continued
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2019
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  2. Jul 20, 2019 #2

    stringer

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    My phone died so I wasn't able to get a bunch of pictures of the rest of the sharpening process. But the basic idea is, once you get a burr, you can go through your progression. I spend about thirty seconds on alternating doing back and forth scrubbing at each progression. After the crystolon I went to Shapton Glass 500. Then I went to Suehiro Deluxe 1000. From the 1k on I follow the scrubbing motion with 50-100 alternating edge leading sweeping strokes with very light pressure. I repeated that action, scrubbing and then sweeping. I did Shapton Glass 2k, 4k, 8k. Then I finished on a Hideriyama that I just picked up from JKI. The knife has a near mirror polish and looks pretty good. I've established a nice wide sharpening road. We'll see how it does in the real world over the next few weeks.

    IMG_20190719_203239.jpg

    IMG_20190719_203411.jpg

    IMG_20190719_203541.jpg

    If you're curious. I haven't lost any measurable height yet at least measurable with my crappy digital calipers. I have trimmed off 4 grams of weight.

    IMG_20190719_203659.jpg

    IMG_20190719_203244.jpg
     
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  3. Jul 20, 2019 #3

    HRC_64

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    ooohh this looks interesting.... :)




    One quick question....

    That rated-hardness for 52100 seems greared more toward toughness (58-59) vs retention or absolute geometry...
    [​IMG]
    Curious to see how find this impacts the role of the knife in youre aresenal?
     
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  4. Jul 20, 2019 #4

    Barmoley

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    Looking forward to more, great start. How do you know the hardness was this disclosed to you by the store or Sheehan himself?
     
  5. Jul 20, 2019 #5

    HRC_64

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    BTW the aesthetic of this Shi/Han has always been an eycatcher IMHO...

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Jul 20, 2019 #6

    stringer

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    Educated guess
     
  7. Jul 20, 2019 #7

    stringer

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    The Watanabe is the only really hard blade I've used. It has taken some getting used to. My sweet spot is usually in that 58-61 range.
     
  8. Jul 20, 2019 #8

    labor of love

    labor of love

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    I can’t seem to find the media at the moment. But I believe he mentioned at some point aiming for 58hrc.
     
  9. Jul 20, 2019 #9

    labor of love

    labor of love

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    Correction: he does mention his A2 KU line being 58hrc.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2019
  10. Jul 20, 2019 #10

    MrHiggins

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    Stringer: you're doing it the hard way! I sent my Shi-Han A2 back to the maker for thinning. Shehan did a superb job. Took about 20 grams off.
    20190719_203352.jpeg 20190719_203336.jpeg
     
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  11. Jul 20, 2019 #11

    stringer

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    Awwww. C'mon man. What's the fun in that? Nothing like a few hours with the Crystolon to keep your shoulders in shape.
     
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  12. Jul 20, 2019 #12

    MrHiggins

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    It'll make a man of you, no doubt!
     
  13. Jul 20, 2019 #13

    Barmoley

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    Oh that's interesting, never heard this. Very unusual for 52100 these days, as it is very tough even at higher hardness. I wonder what is the reason for this, will make it extremely tough, but edge retention will most likely suffer. On the other hand it should react well to
    steeling and general abuse.
     
  14. Jul 20, 2019 #14

    stringer

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    I think it might be slightly harder. Coutelier has it listed at 62. Bernal has stuff in the same line listed at 61.
     
  15. Jul 20, 2019 #15

    stringer

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    There is an Instagram exchange where the Bernal guy says that with the A2 batch he left "a little retention and hardness on the table in exchange for easier sharpening and better cutting feel."

    The cutting feel is supposed to be toothier I guess.

    I don't know for sure. The cutting feel is nice. Once I made it past the never ending micro bevel the burr pops up quick and easy on each stone and is just as easily chased away.
     
  16. Jul 20, 2019 #16

    labor of love

    labor of love

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    Fair enough. I think his 52100 feels unlike all the others I’ve tried. One way or the other he’s doing something different. In a good way.
     
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  17. Jul 20, 2019 #17

    labor of love

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    No you’re not getting off that easy! Let’s see the choil shot!
     
  18. Jul 20, 2019 #18

    stringer

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    I did another test chop after sharpening. Fun little chopper.

     
  19. Jul 20, 2019 #19

    Bensbites

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    I have a couple shi.han knives in the shop, they look really nice and the customer loves them. I also love seeing strata mentioned here. I have felt with Evan in several occasions and look forward to meeting him in August.
     
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  20. Jul 20, 2019 #20

    JBroida

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    He’s literally said his goal is 61.5... I think both bernal and coutelier are close enough for government work
     
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  21. Jul 20, 2019 #21

    Barmoley

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    Thanks Jon, this makes a lot more sense and is good to know.
     
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  22. Jul 20, 2019 #22

    stringer

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    The original finish looked mostly done with very fine belts. Patina set in very slowly and was mostly grays with a few brown spots. Unsurprisingly, the near mirror finish is quite a bit more reactive and the colors are much more vivid. All I cut was one onion.

    IMG_20190720_073045.jpg
     
  23. Jul 20, 2019 #23

    MrHiggins

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    The masses demand choil shots, and choil shots they shall get!

    I asked shehan to focus on thinning the front half of the knife, so I don't think the choil shot tells the whole story. I also said that he took 20gr off the weight. Now I'm doubting my accuracy (that's what I think I remember, but my memory on these things is suspect).

    In general, this knife has been a bit of an ongoing work in progress. When I first got it, I thought it was too forward-balanced. I tried to correct it by replacing the standard ho wood handle with something bigger and heavier (Cody Paul did a great job with a gidgee and blackwood handle). It still didn't quite fit my preferences, so I asked shehan to thin it. When I got it back, I cut off about an inch of the handle. Unfortunately, I exposed the handle's interior dowel when I did. It's not as pretty now, but it's exactly where I want it in terms of performance. 20190720_065408.jpeg 20190720_065821.jpeg 1563628445728.jpeg
     
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  24. Jul 20, 2019 #24

    Midsummer

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    Thanks for documenting your journey with this knife. My efforts pail in comparison. You clearly have much more experience in maintaining your blades. I want to thank you for sharing.
     
  25. Jul 20, 2019 #25

    bm11

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    Cool thread! Excited to find Strata- I had never heard of it before, but they are only just over an hour from my house. I reached out to them already!
     
  26. Jul 20, 2019 #26

    stringer

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    Here's the choil on mine.
    This is after sharpening but it should still look pretty much like it came because I didn't focus much on the heel.

    IMG_20190720_092904.jpg
     
  27. Jul 20, 2019 #27

    panda

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    ive always wanted to try a shihan, but i cant with that profile..
     
  28. Jul 20, 2019 #28

    MrHiggins

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    Profile pic of Shi-Han white #2/wrought iron (260x57) and Shi-Han A2 (240x53). 20190720_100927.jpeg
     
  29. Jul 20, 2019 #29

    HRC_64

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    I'm with Panda I can't get my head wrapped around Shi.Han profiles.
     
  30. Jul 20, 2019 #30

    labor of love

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    He’s making me a gyuto with a custom profile. Flatter profile+lower more pointy tip.
     
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