Eater: Why Restaurant Owners Are Increasingly Providing Knives to Their Kitchen Staff
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what does being queer have to do with ANY of this? are queer people poor? unknowledgeable about or disinterested/uninitiated in kitchen equipment?
who's maintaining these workplace-provided knives? also, does everyone get their own uniquely assigned to them? how are they keeping them straight? do they sharpie their names on them? does the kitchen put asset tags on each knife?
weird article, lol
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i'm cracking up imagining the automotive version of this.
imagine these noble, big-impact reformers chasing the snap-on and mac dealers out of the area with pitchforks and trying to make the shops provide tools to their employees. communal toolboxes for everyone! i'm sure that would go over real well with mechanics. and somehow make it more queer-friendly and inclusive.
imagine these noble, big-impact reformers chasing the snap-on and mac dealers out of the area with pitchforks and trying to make the shops provide tools to their employees. communal toolboxes for everyone! i'm sure that would go over real well with mechanics. and somehow make it more queer-friendly and inclusive.
MarcelNL
deleted the professional part....so blame taker
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HUH, so the problem is that when starting a new job you need to invest like a 1000 in knifes and not just the the one time they start a job as cook, or a cook cannot afford to buy knifes at all? The solution IMO would be to pay cooks better, or setup a 'knife allowance' not by potentially handicapping them using blunt tools selected by someone else.
Bensbites
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I read this differently. I see this restaurant owner as someone who has probably experienced discrimination against the LGBQT community / economically disadvantaged. They are trying to remove barriers and create opportunities for the patrons and employees. The owner isn’t requiring anyone to use house knives, just enabling someone not to have to buy their own.
If people work in the same place, they will probably earn the same wage. So they'll have about the same money to spend on knives (ofcourse there will be some differences in home situations and costs that are accompanied by that). I feel like giving everybody knives will just make them beat them up and don't care for them properly. If something is yours, you simply see it as more valuable and care for it better. Plus, you can actually pick something that suits you.
In the restaurants I worked in there, were always house knives available, but most people still had their own knives. This is because the house knives were often used as beaters or for people on internship. They were usually quite crap because noone cared for them properly.
I do agree with the article that it was hard buying proper knives. Especially the first few years since the wages weren't great. Most of us started of with cheaper things like victorinox until we could pay for german knives or entry level japanese knives like Tojiro.
Therefor, in my opinion, they should either 1) Pay them better 2) give every person a certain amount of budget to buy knives/tools to work in the restaurant.
In the restaurants I worked in there, were always house knives available, but most people still had their own knives. This is because the house knives were often used as beaters or for people on internship. They were usually quite crap because noone cared for them properly.
I do agree with the article that it was hard buying proper knives. Especially the first few years since the wages weren't great. Most of us started of with cheaper things like victorinox until we could pay for german knives or entry level japanese knives like Tojiro.
Therefor, in my opinion, they should either 1) Pay them better 2) give every person a certain amount of budget to buy knives/tools to work in the restaurant.
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I'm only a home cook, but i feel there's more than providing quality tools to employees here.
who's maintaining these workplace-provided knives? also, does everyone get their own uniquely assigned to them? how are they keeping them straight? do they sharpie their names on them? does the kitchen put asset tags on each knife?
My current part time gig uses a knife service that drops off sharpened knives and picks up the used ones for about $15 per week. The service provides the knives and they are really really cheap quality. I told the owner to buy an electric chefs choice and save money, but she likes the service for whatever reason.
So many buzzwords... Ashamed of myself for wasting 2 minutes of my day off reading this Mcshite.
Yea, I’m not sure why everyone hates this article. (Ok, there is the statement that not everyone needs to buy $700 gyutos. Guess it makes sense that this wouldn’t go over well on kkf. And I get why a retailer wouldn’t like the article. 
@crockerculinary.)
You’ve just got a restaurant owner just saying that people shouldn’t have to buy their own work equipment if they don’t want to do so. Y’all are quibbling about “well, does she even maintain the knives?”…. Well, maybe she does and maybe she doesn’t, it doesn’t say, although I’d guess yes, but you’re acting like the fact that this isn’t specified in the article invalidates her argument, when it wouldn’t be that hard to have someone come in every week to sharpen.
As for “they should just pay more, or give a knife stipend”. I mean, ok, paying more is good. But they’re on a budget, and they probably think that it’s an easy measure to just provide knives rather than expect everyone to spend money on them. I seriously don’t see what’s so objectionable about providing the tools your employees need. She’s not requiring anyone to use them. I mean, at lower end restaurants, are there not a bunch of house knives? Probably not a truly alien concept in the industry.
As for the statement about queer inclusivity, yea, that seems a little off topic, but I take it to mean that her mission started out as trying to encourage queer people to work there, so she’s thinking about inclusivity issues, and this can be considered an inclusivity issue. Anyway, her argument for why knives should be provided is clear, independent of this statement, so why is it so bothersome?
Heh whatever tho. I’m not a pro of course, so my opinion’s uninformed. I just didn’t find this article any more objectionable than the 10,000 other mediocre articles out there.
@crockerculinary.)You’ve just got a restaurant owner just saying that people shouldn’t have to buy their own work equipment if they don’t want to do so. Y’all are quibbling about “well, does she even maintain the knives?”…. Well, maybe she does and maybe she doesn’t, it doesn’t say, although I’d guess yes, but you’re acting like the fact that this isn’t specified in the article invalidates her argument, when it wouldn’t be that hard to have someone come in every week to sharpen.
As for “they should just pay more, or give a knife stipend”. I mean, ok, paying more is good. But they’re on a budget, and they probably think that it’s an easy measure to just provide knives rather than expect everyone to spend money on them. I seriously don’t see what’s so objectionable about providing the tools your employees need. She’s not requiring anyone to use them. I mean, at lower end restaurants, are there not a bunch of house knives? Probably not a truly alien concept in the industry.
As for the statement about queer inclusivity, yea, that seems a little off topic, but I take it to mean that her mission started out as trying to encourage queer people to work there, so she’s thinking about inclusivity issues, and this can be considered an inclusivity issue. Anyway, her argument for why knives should be provided is clear, independent of this statement, so why is it so bothersome?
Heh whatever tho. I’m not a pro of course, so my opinion’s uninformed. I just didn’t find this article any more objectionable than the 10,000 other mediocre articles out there.
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As a heavy equipment mechanic i can confirm that shared tooling is a royal pain in the ass, we all have our standard kits and anything specialty, which in the heavy world is typically is just really big **** is provided through a company tool room. Its a pain, ***** constantly getting broken or going missing because no one has pride in it. Everyone should be able to provide the basics, everyone sharing knives would be like everyone in a shop using the same socket set, work might get done but its gonna be a ****** experience
Bensbites
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i have worked in tire and auto care shops. This is like comparing apples and oranges.
A house set of chef knives can do 99% of what fancier knives can do. Maybe not as efficiently, nice knives are higher end tools, but they don’t make the chef. Mechanics can’t remove a 17 mm bolt with a 10 mm wrench.
Yeah, this article does a great job of throwing a bunch of related, but separate issues in one place. I boil it down to these three main points:
1) There is a sense of gatekeeping in high-end kitchens that is divorced from your skill set (i.e. - what kind of knives you use, what cookbooks you read, where you've staged). That can suck for people with the skill set and the drive but who don't come from money for fancy culinary schools with connections, expensive knives, or the luxury of time to read.
2) You do not, in fact, need an expensive knife to do the job. Most jobs provide the tools for you to do the job so it's kind of wack to (in essence) require one of the least paid professions to shell out big money for their own tools.
3) A lot of pro kitchens are abusive af. A lot of the people working in them come from crap background and carry loads of their own trauma. Queer people tend to carry a little bit more of that due to stigma, and most kitchens aren't super politically correct. It's a fight for everybody to succeed in a kitchen, but it's *usually* a little bit harder for folks who are different.
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I don't think there's anything in particularly wrong about these points, though it doesn't summarize every kitchen or every chefs' experience. I remember saving for six months to be able to afford my first real knife with my own money on a cook's salary. It was only $300-ish if I remember right, but that was a huge amount of money for me back then. I worked super hard and studied to be worthy of the time and money I put in to buying that knife. I took care of that knife like it was my baby and I still have that knife. It gave me a sense of ownership of my work and drove me to be a better chef.
I think there's an awful lot to be said for places that provide house knives that aren't garbage and teach their chefs to care for them and give them the time to do so. I also think there's a lot to be said for having your own knives. I don't think it's crazy to allow both to exist in the same establishment. I do think it's crazy to judge somebody's kitchen-worthiness based on what knives they can afford.
1) There is a sense of gatekeeping in high-end kitchens that is divorced from your skill set (i.e. - what kind of knives you use, what cookbooks you read, where you've staged). That can suck for people with the skill set and the drive but who don't come from money for fancy culinary schools with connections, expensive knives, or the luxury of time to read.
2) You do not, in fact, need an expensive knife to do the job. Most jobs provide the tools for you to do the job so it's kind of wack to (in essence) require one of the least paid professions to shell out big money for their own tools.
3) A lot of pro kitchens are abusive af. A lot of the people working in them come from crap background and carry loads of their own trauma. Queer people tend to carry a little bit more of that due to stigma, and most kitchens aren't super politically correct. It's a fight for everybody to succeed in a kitchen, but it's *usually* a little bit harder for folks who are different.
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I don't think there's anything in particularly wrong about these points, though it doesn't summarize every kitchen or every chefs' experience. I remember saving for six months to be able to afford my first real knife with my own money on a cook's salary. It was only $300-ish if I remember right, but that was a huge amount of money for me back then. I worked super hard and studied to be worthy of the time and money I put in to buying that knife. I took care of that knife like it was my baby and I still have that knife. It gave me a sense of ownership of my work and drove me to be a better chef.
I think there's an awful lot to be said for places that provide house knives that aren't garbage and teach their chefs to care for them and give them the time to do so. I also think there's a lot to be said for having your own knives. I don't think it's crazy to allow both to exist in the same establishment. I do think it's crazy to judge somebody's kitchen-worthiness based on what knives they can afford.
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I’ve repeatedly told my staff to run their knife purchases by me before ordering. Somehow they still insist on buying absolute garbage dammy knives from social media ads instead from vendors even with $150 budgets.
I do feel her pain in the sense I’d rather just buy their knives for them. It sounds like she just bought tojiro DP/Mac house knives and used the opportunity to get some politically loaded publicity out of the experience.
I do feel her pain in the sense I’d rather just buy their knives for them. It sounds like she just bought tojiro DP/Mac house knives and used the opportunity to get some politically loaded publicity out of the experience.
As a home chef, I'd always assumed that
- most restaurants supplied house knives, that were the crap ones that were sharpened weekly by "the service"
- that chefs who wanted better (like the ones that are on this forum) are in the very, very small minority.
This is based on my totally random impression of the average run of the mill North American restaurant.
I could see that it could be different in the "high-end" or something like professional sushi.
At the end of the day, the reality is that more good food is prepared with dull crap knives than good knives.
- most restaurants supplied house knives, that were the crap ones that were sharpened weekly by "the service"
- that chefs who wanted better (like the ones that are on this forum) are in the very, very small minority.
This is based on my totally random impression of the average run of the mill North American restaurant.
I could see that it could be different in the "high-end" or something like professional sushi.
At the end of the day, the reality is that more good food is prepared with dull crap knives than good knives.
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I fundamentally don't agree with the premise of the article - that asking cooks to bring their own knives creates a class divide and gate-keeper effect for fine dining that ostracizes certain groups. I have never met nor heard a story about a chef who required their cooks to buy expensive knives - they only cared whether the knives were sharp. There are plenty of good chef knives for under $30 that if well maintained can perform great. What restaurant is requiring their line cooks to buy $500 worth of gear just to get started?
It’s probably more like why some schools require uniforms. House knives don’t convey status. If you’re bringing your own knives and yours are $30 while the other guy’s are $500 show pieces, that’s a status differential.
M1k3
Senior Member
Depends on the place, but in my experience, generally no.
Unless you count being berated when you inevitably cut yourself.
Well, remember Ian, i was a chef before being a retailer, and that is where my bristling comes from.Yea, I’m not sure why everyone hates this article. (Ok, there is the statement that not everyone needs to buy $700 gyutos. Guess it makes sense that this wouldn’t go over well on kkf. And I get why a retailer wouldn’t like the article.
I think the articles whole premise about this “issue” is misguided, and therefore everything that follows doesn’t compute.
I believe the “knife culture situation” that they are complaining about is actually inherently a good thing. Here’s why-
First, I’ve worked at a lot of restaurants, and they all have at least a handful of beaters available if someone doesn’t have their own, and if for some reason the restaurant didn’t, I, and most chefs (or one of the cooks) would always have something they would let you use. It was almost a ritual for me when I started a new position to hide all the beat up and burnt up white handled Dexters, and replace them with some inexpensive but 1000% better knives for community use.
And then, claiming that there was an expectation to buy 700 dollar knives to be able to start a job is just ridiculous. It’s definitely changed a bit over the past handful of years (a good thing in my view), but in my time, even the top tier chefs mostly had things like Misono ux-10s, or maybe a Mcusta or other sub 250 dollar knife, and cooks considered those high end and badass. If they even noticed. And if you were new, there was no “expectation” to buy something expensive and there are always lots of low cost starter options - Kiwi, Victorinox, etc. And i never saw anyone shamed for not having high end knives.
I think its good thing that cooks should be expected to have and be responsible for their own tools. In the past there hasn’t been much support for them to figure it all out, but certainly thats changing with more awareness and more resources, and cooks and chefs are finally starting to learn more about knives and their maintenance.
The best thing would be to simply be able to pay them well so that a $200 dollar knife purchase isn’t a struggle. But capitalism being what it is….
I think the better thing would be for chefs and knife folk to “act locally” and help create a positive knife culture in their restaurant, and i have seen a lot of desire for that. As an example when I was a chef I gifted a number of knives to cooks who worked hard but had ****** knives. I tried to teach my cooks where I could and encourage them, and gave them information and recommendations appropriate to their level.
Anyway, what this restaurant is doing is fine, but its the framing of the article, that quality knives are a classist thing and an injustice that needs to be addressed by giving everyone the same mediocrity, and that people would be more content workers like that, that I take exception to.
Sure its more equitable, but there is zero room for personality and appreciation or passion for the tools. And that I definitely do not like. I think if a company wanted to do a really good thing, they would give their employees who needed one small kit with the tools necessary for the job. And help educate them in maintenance. Or just a small equipment expense. Or just pay people better, but thats a whole different discussion. Or is it?
Caveat- their are certainly crappy and rude cooks and people out there who have probably made other people feel small cause they didn’t have fancy knives, and i don’t want to discount that. Snobby people are snobby, and that’s lame, so i think it’s important for us as “knife ambassadors” to remember to meet people where they are and be nice to folks who dont know any better. I have people coming in all the time that think $50 is expensive for a knife, because for them, it is. And i try to have something for them. Hell i have something if they only have $10. And if they dont have $10, i have something I’ll just give them. I see folks on the forums all the time talking past people and being snobby, and id love to see that change in the knife community.
TLDR what @Racheski said.
Well, that all makes good sense, and I certainly trust your appraisal of the situation more than mine, so I’ll probably shut up now! I do see value in the kind of atmosphere she’s trying to build at her restaurant — seems like this approach towards knives is emblematic of her more general management style, which aims for a minimally toxic environment.
I agree the article is trying hard to hype up the conflict between the personal / communal knife approaches, tho.
user 16756
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two things:
- as it happens queer people do tend to have lower net worths than non-queer people, especially BIPOC queer people, especially those of an age who would first be entering kitchens
- the restauranter herself is a out trans woman. she is literally telling you what being queer has to with this. not only in this article, but also this one right here which is a more extensive interview.
Jovidah
I'll make you a sponsor offer you can't refuse...
Is it though? I mean, wages might be low but they're not THAT low. It just shows who bothers to spend more of their limited salary in their work tools and who doesn't. At the end of the day they still get the same salary. It's not like there's a load of billionaire kids running around showing off their wealth by bringing Kramer knives to their line cook job they only do as a hobby...
Good point, although same salary doesn’t imply same expendable income. As an extreme example, imagine someone with no debt living with a roommate vs someone with tons of debt trying to support a family. The richest I’ve ever felt was when I was a postdoc earning half of what I earn now.
Probably this is not a huge issue that’s tearing every kitchen apart, it’s just something that she thinks is antithetical to the kind of communal culture she’s trying to build at her place. But anyway, people who’ve actually worked in kitchens are more equipped to talk about this than I am.
Nice, that was an interesting read.
Self aggrandizing ’virtue signaling’ bull$hit.
user 16756
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which bit, the part where she literally opened a restaurant and started giving her staff free knives?
that's not signalling. that's literally the opposite of signalling. do you even know what the words virtue signaling even mean?
this term "virtue singaling" has to be the result of some serious brain worms because no one who says it appears to actually understand what it means or the history of signaling theory. take it from a person whose field coined this concept/term, people sound dumb when they use it.
wanna do keywords? do I get to call your post a dog whistle?
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Are the staff required to use the house knives?
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M1k3
Senior Member
I'd eat there.
