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Edge Retention- best carbon makers

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XooMG

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I had a Chinese cleaver in skh-4, and another briefly in hap-72. I cut a carrot with them and didn't notice significant dulling after that. I sharpen after each ingredient though so it's not really a big deal.
 

Sharpchef

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I had a Chinese cleaver in skh-4, and another briefly in hap-72. I cut a carrot with them and didn't notice significant dulling after that. I sharpen after each ingredient though so it's not really a big deal.
What a clever man!

Greets Sebastian
 

Sharpchef

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It would certainly be nice if these tungsten steels were more available for bladesmiths outside of Japan. And the V-Toku and Blue series steels top out around 2% tungsten. Same with the German steels like 1.2519. In tool steels and stainless steels we have the whole range of wear resistance from very low to crazy high, while simple forging steels are mostly on the low end of the spectrum.
I think at least 1.2519 is a no brainer to get, 1.2442 is not cheap but also common...1.2562 is not to get right now (i got enough in stock at least for me;) ), but you can get it in stainless steel cladding from Balbach ("just" 438€ per m) In europe we can also get aogami and aogami super but for prices we don`t like to discuss... Even HAP 40 would be no problem as long we import at least 100kg.

Greets Sebastian.
 

Gregmega

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Quick revisit and thanks for all the contributions.

Watanabe, Raquin, and Evan have been leading the pack with honorable mention from Maz nash & Marko. I need to take the Kochi v2 back in for a brutal weekend and see where he sits. There’s probs 5 others I’m missing but against these steels/makers and facing down these demanding environs, the choice has been pretty clear.

Now- hit me with alloys. Was thinking about stepping into sld and the like for a toe dip. Brooksie said the masashi was fun but weird. What else ya got?
 

lemeneid

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I'm still trying to find a 1.2562 blade. Who makes these?
 

Nikabrik

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Robin Dalman previously has.
Xerxes
Johannes Adams
Marius Smide
 

Barmoley

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I'm still trying to find a 1.2562 blade. Who makes these?
Dalman, Xerxes, Marius Smide made a few, but he didn't have any 1.2562 last time I asked him. At some point all of it was bought, not sure if they made more steel and when it will be available. It actually seems somewhat close to aogami super, has a bit more tungsten but other than that very similar from chemical composition stand point.
 

Eloh

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The thing is AS often gets treated fairly conservatively, Sukenari and TF are the only ones - i know of - who actually use the full potential.
 

captaincaed

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I read Salty saying his FRKZ (Sukenari?) AS gets used frequently since it consistently felt sharp and had a good balance of other characteristics.

For me, been happy with TF denka, Xerxes primus, Asia hayabusa, mixed results with Ikeda Wh3 honyaki (I think it's my poor Sharpening). Mazaki wh2 doing better than I expected.

Ryusen HAP40 sharpens way easier than I expected, if we're opening the "SS that feels like carbon" door.
 

captaincaed

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Dalman, Xerxes, Marius Smide made a few, but he didn't have any 1.2562 last time I asked him. At some point all of it was bought, not sure if they made more steel and when it will be available. It actually seems somewhat close to aogami super, has a bit more tungsten but other than that very similar from chemical composition stand point.
Where do y’all find these crazy custom makers?
 

suntravel

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You must look at steel and HT combined, best steel with crapy ht is just crap ;)

Best edgeretention for kitchenknives i got so far from Vanadis 23 and K390. S290 also hold an extrem sharpness very long, but for my taste not tough enough.

Regards

Uwe
 

Gregmega

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An early comment was on Togashi honyaki in w2. Been way down with honyaki lately.

Any thoughts on honyaki vs other standard constructions?
 

lemeneid

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An early comment was on Togashi honyaki in w2. Been way down with honyaki lately.

Any thoughts on honyaki vs other standard constructions?
I’ve been wanting to know this for a while now too. Eg. is there any difference between a Wat/Toyama honyaki vs the regular sanmai blade.
 

suntravel

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Any thoughts on honyaki vs other standard constructions?
Yes, a soft spine will not make the egde harder :D

It is on kitchenknives only for show an works only on low alloy steels with not the best edgeretention possible.

Regards

Uwe
 

tgfencer

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Be 100% with good conscience it's the only I've used with wrought iron for gyutos so far :)
Good to know the memory is still working. Now I just need to convince you to make me a similar one with a less reactive cladding. I've never handled any of your standard s-grind knives, but this workhorse grind is a performer.
 

Keith Sinclair

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Yes, a soft spine will not make the egde harder :D

It is on kitchenknives only for show an works only on low alloy steels with not the best edgeretention possible.

Regards

Uwe
Perhaps many Honyaki are for show I used one at work it got a real workout nice hunk of steel with good edge retention on plastic boards.

Bought a Sigratin Honyaki with burnt chestnut handle never used on BST years ago. Great knife sold it to Banquet Chef friend who for years has plowed through all kinds of prep with that blade.

There are pro cooks here that have used Honyaki knives. They work well doing tons of prep. High polish fancy handle Honyaki may sit in a drawer. Some are made to use.
 

Eloh

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I think the argument is that the differential heat treatment doesn't give any advantage compared to a mono steel blade with same steel/ ht.
For edge retention the only thing that's relevant is the steel at the edge.
 

labor of love

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I think the argument is that the differential heat treatment doesn't give any advantage compared to a mono steel blade with same steel/ ht.
For edge retention the only thing that's relevant is the steel at the edge.
Or another way of interpreting this is to say does Togashi San mai have retention on par with his honyaki.
Which seems to be the case for Jmakers. Pretty unlikely any of them are using identical methods for San mai, honyaki and mono non honyaki.
 

Jmcc

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Or another way of interpreting this is to say does Togashi San mai have retention on par with his honyaki.
Which seems to be the case for Jmakers. Pretty unlikely any of them are using identical methods for San mai, honyaki and mono non honyaki.
If the core steel was the same as their mono steel or honyaki then they would use the same HT.
 

Eloh

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For what it's worth if edge retention is of any concern I would personally avoid dumping money into shirogami knives and rather look at some of the following

Xerxes 1.2562/1.2442
Catchside 1.2442
Dalman 1.2562
Guldimann 1.2562/his proprietary steel

These will be far beyond the best possible heat treated shirogami knives



Edit: Also give the sukenari hap 40 a try. It's easier to sharpen than I expected...
 
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Alder26

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yoshikane white #2 or SKD-11 are heavy hitters and really cheap for what they are.
 

labor of love

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If the core steel was the same as their mono steel or honyaki then they would use the same HT.
So what your saying is ashi Hamono heat treat is the same for his mono wh2 line as his honyaki?
 

suntravel

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Perhaps many Honyaki are for show
What i meant was that the Hamon and differential hardenig is for show, of course a well made Honyaki can be a good Pro tool also.

But there is no practical benefit for kitchenknives because if i make knives i get the same quality on the edge with full hardening, Hardenening with clay and polishing the Hamon needs a few hours more work only to make them look better.

No one should use a kitchen knife for prying or parry a knife atacque, like with outdoor or fighting knives :D

Regards

Uwe
 

Jmcc

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So what your saying is ashi Hamono heat treat is the same for his mono wh2 line as his honyaki?
Sorry I misread your first post
I agree if a maker is tempering for different HRC numbers for different knives he wouldn't be following the exact same HT
 
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