Espresso at home: worth it?

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One can make great espresso at home?

  • Sure enough!

    Votes: 34 97.1%
  • Not possible

    Votes: 1 2.9%

  • Total voters
    35
You guys with the robot. Do you think it can be used successfully in a campervan? Asking for a friend ;)
I use it when camping, like mentioned, all you need is some boiling water and beans ground at home or using a hand grinder. (heck you could even use the preground supermarket stuff with the pressurized basket in the Robot)
 
If @FoRdLaz enters this discussion, you will be in a deep trouble :D

I went from dreaming about a nice espresso machine (I never got one prior to Corona & HomeOffice because it would not make sense financially) to a french press, manual coffee grinder (I WILL be buying an electric one soon though, the manual grinding got old pretty fast) and a Ottoni lather maker and found that I just LOVE the taste if the fresh coffee with some Oatley Hafer milk. I completely lost interest of making expresse or proper cappuccino at home - in spite of the fact that even most decent restaurants or coffee bars can't make a good espresso around here (just a bitter/sour dark liquid).
 
PLenty of great ways to enjoy coffee, and all of them can get you results that are far better than what is usually served commercially. Even a cheap vintage lever machine such as an Arrarex Caravel does the trick and can compete with multi $$ new machines.

BTW:
Coffee Sterols are a repeating debate in th community, a combination of a high LDL and high consumption of French press coffee may warrant using a paper filter.
 
Who wants to live forever.
pour some milk into your coffee and give it more dimensions.
Oh and make it look like a painting while you pour.
 
Y'all have me questioning if I even have a good reference point for tasty coffee.
 
The reason for me starting this thread is that I'm having a discussion with a friend, who claims that making espresso at home isn't easy.

He points to experts, like James Hoffmann, Scott Rao, Matt Perger, Tim Wendelboe, and Nick Cho. Has anyone read something by these people who could disprove his claim?
 
All incredible World Barista Champions or contenders. And never, have any said that great espresso at home is impossible.

Good grinder, good machine and you'll be fine. James Hoffman on YouTube is a fantastic starting point.

But it's definitely easier and cheaper to get great results with filter coffee using a hand grinder and a V60 or Hario drip.
 
Once you cut through the weeds it boils (pun intended) down to the info Jim Schulman collated on HB:
Espresso 101: How to Adjust Dose and Grind Setting by Taste

is that impossible at home? Hardly I'd say, do folks struggle? Yes, and mostly because they do not follow the steps outlined in the article and start messing around with more than one parameter. A bit like as if I would start buying a J Knife, and immediately try to thin it, sharpen it, reprofile it and polish it without even knowing what stone to use how and when...is it impossible to do all that at home, nope.
 
The reason for me starting this thread is that I'm having a discussion with a friend, who claims that making espresso at home isn't easy.

He points to experts, like James Hoffmann, Scott Rao, Matt Perger, Tim Wendelboe, and Nick Cho. Has anyone read something by these people who could disprove his claim?
It's easy to make bad espresso anywhere, but making good espresso is both possible and basically requires the same things no matter if you are at home or at a coffee shop.
Capable gear, good water and beans and the skillset to make it happen.
 
Honestly my tastebuds don’t run into the same problems some of the coffee forum geeks do. They speak of off tastes and taints from grinds and rituals, static and poorly applied WDT grinds and what type of water is used to spritz etc.
I get the love of detail, but my tongue tells me when it’s good or not. And maybe my tongue isn’t as talented as the world barista cupping judges. But that’s ok too.
Long winded way of saying hell yes great espresso is possible at home
 
There may be more aluminium ones on his site eventually. They take much longer to produce with all the manual polishing.
Don't hold your breath. Paul confirmed he will not be making any more polished aluminium versions.
 
Since no one else has addressed this a moka pot is not espresso, it doesn't generate enough pressure for one thing.
As everyone else has already noted you absolutely can get espresso at home that equals or exceeds in quality that of 99% of the coffee shops out there. The only catches are that there is a learning curve and that you will have to throw some money at the project, probably a minimum of $1k+ if you're buying new in the USA (scale, grinder and espresso machine).
Given my tastes, budget, and personality I decided not to buy an espresso set-up for home. Even judiciously buying used gear I'm certain I would soon be in the multiple thousands of dollars bracket and that just doesn't make sense for me. I'm fairly happy drinking pour over, AeroPress, or vacuum siphon coffee. I will gladly drink someone else's excellent or even decent home espresso, just as I will gladly go out for an afternoon on their sailboat While I have an investment in makers, a decent grinder, scale, Thermapen, and water filtration it still is a fraction of the buy-in for good home espresso.
If you can afford it and enjoy and drink enough espresso to make it worth while for you by all means go for it but don't let the notion that you can't make good espresso at home dissuade you because that simply isn't a valid reason.
 
Since no one else has addressed this a moka pot is not espresso, it doesn't generate enough pressure for one thing.
I gave up pointing that out to people years ago. Whatever makes them happy...

In Italy it seems pretty common for people to use moka pots at home -- and to consider the finished product an espresso -- even though it is really not. Whatever floats their boat.

I don't get the 'can't make good espresso at home' claim that caused the OP to start this thread. You can get the same (and often far better) beans then many of the coffee shops, buy the same commercial grade grinders (used Mazzer Super Jolly, etc.), and buy a commercial-grade espresso machine. You can even have better control over the water filtering. Now is it financially feasible to do this? Probably not for many people, but if you make a couple a day at home you will be ahead financially vs going to a coffee shop daily after a few years.
 
yeah espresso at home can be much better. Cause you can control the temp, extraction time, grind size, roasting choice and most importantly, water quality. most cafes use R.O water that is pure but has no minerals for that mouth feel.
 
You've asked two separate questions in your post.
  • Espresso at home: worth it?
  • Do you think it’s not possible to make good espresso
The first question is subjective. There is no right answer. It depends completely on who you are asking.

The second question is clearly false. Lets answer it with logic. There is nothing industrial or specialised about making espresso. You don't need $20M equipment or a bespoke production line. If the world's best barista is wealthy enough, they can buy all the equipment they use at work and make exactly the same coffee at home.

From all the responses here... it is clear that if you value espresso, you can make a bloody good drink at home. I would say there is one advantage to cafe espresso and an opposing advantage to home espresso.

At a cafe, a good barista will be constantly adjusting the grind in response to the beans and atmosphere. On average this means customers will be getting great espresso - there might be one or two unfortunate souls whose coffee is slightly sub-optimal (but still good enough). At home, you don't put out the same volume, so it is harder keep chasing the optimal grind settings with small adjustments. If you only make 3 espresso a day, either you will waste more beans per cup adjusting or accept slightly sub-optimal espresso.

The opposing advantage is that when you make espresso at home... if you don't like the shot, just keep pulling shots until you do. You don't have to kick up a fuss and send the coffee back or put up with a bad cup.

I choose the 'sub-optimal' coffee route. Why? I don't like waste and can't be bothered being neurotic about settings. I adjust the grinder for a new set of beans and leave it until the beans are gone. Despite changes to the temperature, humidity and age of the beans. This means the grind is only really 'optimal' for a narrow combination of those parameters. But what does it mean to be 'sub-optimal'? You might not be constantly pulling 'god-shots', but you are likely always making excellent espresso.
 
Fine grinder adjustment. one notch every other day to compensate for beans degassing. Nothing else needed.
like knives, just buy, cut sharpen repeat and you’ll know the truth more than 99.9% of the people out there
 
@Luftmensch Thanks for the detailed and analytical reply! I chose the "sub-optimal" route as well, but just like tristan's post above I feel I'm perfectly able to judge for myself if I like an espresso or not.
 
IMO there is just more room for folks to live out their OCD traits with espresso, you really see the same with every hobby; polish my knives ? heck no, I'm using them....(no offense to anyone who wants a shiny knife)
I am following a middle road between comfort and consistency;

I'm using a timer on my grinder to prep consistent doses to avoid single dosing, I do clean out the throat of the grinder and I'm using an ultra- mini hopper to avoid beans going stale in it, grinder adjustments are minimally required -I haven't had to tweak the grind for over a week now (using three different single origins in parallel).
 
I feel I'm perfectly able to judge for myself if I like an espresso or not.

So you should! :)


IMO there is just more room for folks to live out their OCD traits with espresso, you really see the same with every hobby

I guess that is the thing! There is soooo much room for OCD in espresso! Everybody gets to choose how much care they put into the experience. It is easy enough to have really great espresso at home without much fiddling. But if a person finds joy in chasing the dragon, more power to them!
 
At a cafe, a good barista will be constantly adjusting the grind in response to the beans and atmosphere. On average this means customers will be getting great espresso - there might be one or two unfortunate souls whose coffee is slightly sub-optimal (but still good enough). At home, you don't put out the same volume, so it is harder keep chasing the optimal grind settings with small adjustments. If you only make 3 espresso a day, either you will waste more beans per cup adjusting or accept slightly sub-optimal espresso.

The opposing advantage is that when you make espresso at home... if you don't like the shot, just keep pulling shots until you do. You don't have to kick up a fuss and send the coffee back or put up with a bad cup.
First point -- many cafes don't have good baristas who constantly adjust grind. In fact, I don't think I have ever seen a barista time a pour, inspect the crema or look at the puck for channeling, etc. before knocking it into the trash. I'm sure there are places with baristas who actually do this stuff, but here in the DC area most are about keeping production up with the demand.

Second point -- there is no reason to continuously fiddle if you pull shots daily. As Tristan said, just a minor tweak every couple of days should easily keep ours within a second or two if you are still drawing from the same batch of beans. I buy 5 lb bags of beans, and vacuum seal/ freeze in batches that last about one week each.
 
I think home roasting is very underrated or rarely considered. A small batch roaster handles 250g which is about 14 or so drinks. That’s 3 days for a couple.
Takes literally minutes.
Get lots of bang for your buck too, since greens are so much cheaper than roasts.
if you go single origin arabica you don’t even need to mess with blends.
 
If you’re someone who buys a fancy coffee drink every morning then I do think it makes since. There are maintenance issues with espresso machines and if you can’t fix them yourself you’ll need to factor that in. Gaskets wear out and leaks happen but I really enjoy making my own coffee and you can definitely make a better cup than you can normally buy.
 
My best at home is not as good as the very best that I have available locally, but it's still good and definitely better than anything within caffeine-depraved stumbling distance. Waking up and walking to the kitchen in my boxers is way better than getting dressed and driving 20 min round trip for something that might be marginally better.

Currently using an HX e61 (Quickmill Anita) and Mazzer Mini. Thanks to recently finding James Hoffman on YouTube, among other things, I'm considering some upgrades.
 
My Robot came in yesterday
Takes up tiny amount of counter space. Like it's quality build & simplicity.

That said haven't used it don't have a grinder yet. My Camano hand crank no way. Have espresso grinder on order.

Do have good source for beans. Didn't want to go cheap espresso machine market is loaded with those. Like you want quality espresso at a reasonable price.
 
If you’re someone who buys a fancy coffee drink every morning then I do think it makes since. There are maintenance issues with espresso machines and if you can’t fix them yourself you’ll need to factor that in. Gaskets wear out and leaks happen but I really enjoy making my own coffee and you can definitely make a better cup than you can normally buy.
I hear you, but I think if you are on a kitchen knife forum, and can sharpen knives, you can easily replace gaskets in an espresso machine and tighten the odd weeping nut/ bolt.
 
My Robot came in yesterday
Takes up tiny amount of counter space. Like it's quality build & simplicity.

That said haven't used it don't have a grinder yet. My Camano hand crank no way. Have espresso grinder on order.

Do have good source for beans. Didn't want to go cheap espresso machine market is loaded with those. Like you want quality espresso at a reasonable price.
My favorites outside of Seattle:
https://redbirdcoffee.comhttp://caffefresco.us/about/testimonials.php
 
^^Funny you say that- today I've had 5 shots of Redbird's blue jaguar blend. Really yummy. I have another 4 lbs in the freezer and consider it a go-to.
 
Good to have local roasters. Pea berry Kona medium roast considered good for espresso & can get it much cheaper than on the internet 10 minute drive from my house.
 
First point -- many cafes don't have good baristas who constantly adjust grind. In fact, I don't think I have ever seen a barista time a pour, inspect the crema or look at the puck for channeling, etc. before knocking it into the trash. I'm sure there are places with baristas who actually do this stuff, but here in the DC area most are about keeping production up with the demand.

Second point -- there is no reason to continuously fiddle if you pull shots daily. As Tristan said, just a minor tweak every couple of days should easily keep ours within a second or two if you are still drawing from the same batch of beans. I buy 5 lb bags of beans, and vacuum seal/ freeze in batches that last about one week each.

In other coffee posts i have gone out of my way to bring attention to cultural differences. I guess I should do that again. I can only speak for Australia and more specifically: Sydney. Again... I am not saying coffee here is better or worse than any other country. Just a different culture and a palate.

My experience is that on average, Sydney cafes produce decent espresso. Many restaurants as well. They might not be sublime drinks but it would be dramatic to recoil from them in disgust. Just like you can choose to go to good restaurants, you can choose to go to good cafes! Metropolitan Sydney has a lot of cafes that make decent espresso.

As I have said previously, Australia benefited from Italian (and Greek) immigration after WWII. Immigrants found themselves in a country without deep traditions. We're also a wealthy country. So although our coffee culture inherits from Italian traditions - we were 'free' to experiment with it. I believe we use lighter, more caramely roasts and MILK. Aussies and Kiwis fight over who invented the flat-white. Suffice to say, it is an Antipodean 'invention'. Thanks to cashed up bohemians, yuppies and hipsters, coffee culture here is pretty serious - particularly in the inner city where there is urban renewal.

I wouldnt be surprised if Australia has played a disproportionate role in shaping the 'third wave'. Coffee and brunch are a very Australian institution. Just like you can meet up with a friend for a drink, here you can meet up with a friend for a "coffee". The term is so ubiquitous it is used as shorthand for socialising over a non-alcoholic drink, generally before the evening. It is not unusual for participants socialising over "coffee" to have a tea or juice. Since we're pretty tea mad as well, cafes are fairly competent in that department!

So I think it is a different story here. Baristas will adjust grinds here. Previously I chose the word constant... I agree that gives the wrong impression. In the transitional seasons there can be a temperature swing from the pre-work morning rush to the post lunch haze. Decent baristas will compensate for that. It definitely wont be after every shot but it wouldnt be unusual for the grinder settings to be different across the day. And like you say, in minor tweaks. I think it is just a different cultural standard. More is expected from our baristas here. For instance, basic coffee art (hearts, leaf) is another common skill here. While I wouldn't say it is done at the majority of cafes, it is common enough that it is unsurprising.

Now; super artisan coffee? Of course you can find it here! But like everywhere else, it is a niche.


Ozzies (@Moooza, @friz, @Michi, @Nemo, @juice). I'd be keen to hear your perspective?



Back to the second point. At home: i agree. I only make 3 doubles a day. The routine is just to set and forget (unless things get really out of whack). But if I were a commercial barista, I would watch my shots and make small adjustment every couple of hours if required.
 
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