Espresso Machine Recommendation

[ethompson]

I’m not knowledgeable about the electrical stuff, but I was warned that the frequency matters, not just 220v.

that’s correct, you’d want to step down a 60hz supply to 50 hz for a euro spec pump. Very doable, however, and only a couple hundred for the converter to handle it. For a heating element and not a motor it shouldn’t matter.

 

[Matija]

Any coffee aficionado in the house?

Looking to pick up another expensive hobby. Any of you guys have a recommendation regarding a espresso machine?

More interested in espresso but I need to be able to do cappuccino as that’s what the wife likes (perhaps a dual boiler?)

Super interested to hear your experiences regarding reliability and maintenance too as I believe I will have to do some of the maintenance myself as I move countries every 5 to 6 years because of work.

Thanks in advance for any input.

I have La Marzocco Linea Mini and ek43 grinder. I highly recommend this duo, you won’t regret it.. I started with Gaggia Classic, which was fine but lack of pid and low steam power was bothering me.

 

[nightslayer]

I definitely know more about coffee than I do about knives - if you can find an Odyssey Argos secondhand (because the waitlist is currently 1 year or so) it is all the quality (and more customisability) of a more expensive machine, made in USA, and extremely portable. @OkayMode the Argos is like a La Pavoni with the temperature surfing taken out of the equation and way better steam pressure.. but UK customs are painful.

 

[OkayMode]

I can’t remember that last time I had a drain pour from mine

In fairness though, you have modded yours to the Nth degree!

Literally the only thing putting me off is iffy reports on the quality of the steam wand. I would probably be making a cortado/flat white 75% of the time.

I definitely know more about coffee than I do about knives - if you can find an Odyssey Argos secondhand (because the waitlist is currently 1 year or so) it is all the quality (and more customisability) of a more expensive machine, made in USA, and extremely portable. @OkayMode the Argos is like a La Pavoni with the temperature surfing taken out of the equation and way better steam pressure.. but UK customs are painful.

I want one so much, the currency conversion rates are not great at the moment too on top of customs

 

[ethompson]

In fairness though, you have modded yours to the Nth degree!

Yes, I suppose that is fair. But truthfully I think I could temp surf pretty easy now too with a two switch model.

Literally the only thing putting me off is iffy reports on the quality of the steam wand. I would probably be making a cortado/flat white 75% of the time.

I have to concede this is probably a deal-breaker for you. Especially on back to back drinks. If you bypass the p-stat you can get some seriously impressive steam, but it will overheat the group and takes about 15 minutes to come down to good coffee temp. I drink 20 straight coffees for every milk drink and never more than one, so thats less relevant to me.

I want one so much, the currency conversion rates are not great at the moment too on top of customs

Can't help with exchange, but we could probably work something out on the second part if you ever decide to go that route.

 

[bearhippo]

I don't think this has been said yet (or if it has then I missed it) but the ECM Synchronika is a machine that is commonly recommended around the $3.5k price point. It's easy to work on and is very well built but obviously not as aesthetically pleasing compared to a LM Micra or Mini.

Personally, if I were to jump into the scene now, I would opt for a lever setup with an independent milk frother (of which I heard the NanoFoamer is apparently pretty nice). Sure it's not as convenient as a Micra for example but I don't make many drinks back to back and love the workflow / manual aspect of lever machines.

 

[HolyDiverScallop]

I’m not knowledgeable about the electrical stuff, but I was warned that the frequency matters, not just 220v.

Yes, voltage AND frequency both matter. US is 60hz, UK, Italy, other places are 50hz. There are more 50hz countries than 60hz.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_electricity_by_country

 

[Carbonara]

I definitely know more about coffee than I do about knives - if you can find an Odyssey Argos secondhand (because the waitlist is currently 1 year or so) it is all the quality (and more customisability) of a more expensive machine, made in USA, and extremely portable. @OkayMode the Argos is like a La Pavoni with the temperature surfing taken out of the equation and way better steam pressure.. but UK customs are painful.

I preordered one last night . As it looks pretty great. I still need a machine as my wife has no interest in a lever operated one.

 

[jedy617]

I don't think this has been said yet (or if it has then I missed it) but the ECM Synchronika is a machine that is commonly recommended around the $3.5k price point. It's easy to work on and is very well built but obviously not as aesthetically pleasing compared to a LM Micra or Mini.

Personally, if I were to jump into the scene now, I would opt for a lever setup with an independent milk frother (of which I heard the NanoFoamer is apparently pretty nice). Sure it's not as convenient as a Micra for example but I don't make many drinks back to back and love the workflow / manual aspect of lever machines.

Yeah I mentioned the synchronika, I actually think it looks way cooler imo especially with wood accents

 

[Carbonara]

I also ordered la micra this morning (lead time is 3 weeks) and I have a few more days to make up my mind and potentially cancel the order if I want. Brain wants decent wife wants LM.

One thing that I’ll give LM is that 1 hour after ordering, a LM representative reached out offering help. I asked the representative if we could change the color as my wife is still undecided and she told me no problem at all. Anyway it was a first nice interaction.

Does anyone here have experience with a Zerno Z1 grinder?

 

[nightslayer]

I preordered one last night . As it looks pretty great. I still need a machine as my wife has no interest in a lever operated one.

You're in for a long wait.. but if ever you decide you don't want it pretty sure you'll pretty easily find someone to take over the order from you. If you're using it with a spring it's actually pretty straightforward to use - pull down halfway, wait for 5s, pull all the way down, get coffee. They probably don't have the CS to reach out to every person who orders, but the fun thing about smaller outfits is that they are very active on discord. There is an active chat of pre-orders/users where Ross and team participate in the discussion as well so the machine is being iterated as people report back on user experience.

 

[jedy617]

I have heard quite good things about the zerno, and I like they come with SSP burrs, I use the HU SSP's on my DF83 and they are great

 

[MarcelNL]

have a look at Home-Barista buy/sell...there is enough upgraditis running around to make for interesting finds!

 

[mengwong]

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c36pgrrjllyo

 

[nhb22]

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c36pgrrjllyo

View attachment 371758

My guess is it doesn’t matter much for the high end roasters since the cost of the green beans is a fraction of the total cost.

 

[nightslayer]

My guess is it doesn’t matter much for the high end roasters since the cost of the green beans is a fraction of the total cost.

1lbs of green bean gets you 340g of roasted beans. $2.50 of raw material costs (before shipping, etc.) per 250g bag of coffee is not a fraction of the cost, particularly as the high end roasters are likely to have smaller supply chains with higher costs compared to your Nestles and Starbucks.

 

[OkayMode]

Can't help with exchange, but we could probably work something out on the second part if you ever decide to go that route.

You know what, I may take you up on that if I can’t find a used one here in the UK…

 

[nhb22]

1lbs of green bean gets you 340g of roasted beans. $2.50 of raw material costs (before shipping, etc.) per 250g bag of coffee is not a fraction of the cost, particularly as the high end roasters are likely to have smaller supply chains with higher costs compared to your Nestles and Starbucks.

Around where I am, higher end beans are normally about $25 for a 250g bag. I have always thought the green beans even when above fair trade prices are a small part of the roaster’s cost. I buy coffee from coffee collective often. They actually advertise that they voluntarily pay more. For example, the bag below. I can’t claim that I know the details about all their costs though. So maybe you are right.

 

[nightslayer]

Around where I am, higher end beans are normally about $25 for a 250g bag. I have always thought the green beans even when above fair trade prices are a small part of the roaster’s cost. I buy coffee from coffee collective often. They actually advertise that they voluntarily pay more. For example, the bag below. I can’t claim that I know the details about all their costs though. So maybe you are right.

View attachment 371824

Woah that is pretty impressive transparency around their cost of inputs. But yes, if you're paying $25 per bag of coffee then there's definitely some margins for increased costs there. I'd say average cost of a decent bag in the UK can be more than half of that ($8.5 at the lower end and up to $19 at the higher) so we are definitely expecting prices to rise. Not to mention supermarket prices with even thinner margins..

 

[MarcelNL]

this is the coffee price on the commodity market, the stuff that goes into blends that get roasted to near death by large volume roasters before its ground and packed to be sold in supermarkets etc.

Specialty coffee (anything with 80 points or over on the SCA scale, or specialty coffee association) is WAY more expensive which has to do with quality (read the criteria and shudder how the mass market coffee must look....its not for nothing those beans are roasted to death, that is the only way to get rid of flavor defects).

Expect a small roaster to pay like 8-10 USD a kilo for decent Arabica beans that actuall have nice flavors and no defects. Upscale roasters, the Tim Wendelboe's of this world likely pay a helluvalot more for exclusive beans with stellar flavor profiles.

The greens I'm buying are typically a tad more expensive than 8-10/kg as I buy smaller amounts and via direct trade (no middle men so the grower is supposed to get a far better price)

 

[coffeeandknives]

On the coffee grinder front, I’d recommend the Lagom 01 (I have the P100 for pour over) for a great workflow and a Kafatek Monolith Flat Max (have had the Max 1 and now have the Max 2) for great espresso that’s very forgiving.

 

[avk210]

Started with breville, then rocket appartamento, and finally landed on la marzocco linea micra. Much like the rest of our hobbies, you end up buying what you originally wanted in the end. Echo the importance of the grinder, a multitude of great options now. Started with a eureka specialita, now on Mazzer philos and fiorenzato allground sense

How you liking the allground sense? On the fence with this or an atom 65 w

 

[WildBoar]

Do it! The custom wood pieces for La Marzocco go for $$$$$

Yeah. And it's a damn shame. The black plastic is okay, but having some nice koa side panels with a lot of chatoyance would be cool