European Gesshin stone(s) passaround

Japanese Knives - by Tokushu Knife
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i swear these guys are going to beat me to the punch on getting the passaround out... really glad some guys out there will be able to try some of these though. Thanks again for putting this together.
 
I'm still a bit up on the fence on wether or not to join in... but I should be last anyway: I'm close to the border so after mark76 has them I could ship them to Matus from within Germany. ;)
Another vote for the full set; wenn schon, denn schon... :)
 
Krakorak said:
Matus said:
Mark, Europe is a small place. Should you sill be interested once your schedule clears just drop me a PM and we can work something out.
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I just want to add to that very kind, indirect offer of Matus that you would still have the chance to test the complete set as the 4000 stone will remain in his possession after the passaround...But maybe it won't be necessary at all if about 2-3 other people were interested in the passaround, if I count correctly...So let's wait...
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Thanks guys! I know to find you :).
 
JBroida said:
i swear these guys are going to beat me to the punch on getting the passaround out... really glad some guys out there will be able to try some of these though. Thanks again for putting this together.
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Yeah, maybe, but its "slightly" easier to put together a passaround with 4 stones than with 20;-)..
 
OK, I would say that the interest in the full set dominates. Let us prepare the stones. I will then post another thread where we collect names and we can start :)
 
Matus said:
OK, I would say that the interest in the full set dominates. Let us prepare the stones. I will then post another thread where we collect names and we can start :)
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Might want to promote it a bit more as well; I'm sure there are some people around here who are quite active and who would like to jump in. It is a pretty unique chance to try some different stones after all...

And who knows; maybe at some point when new trade agreements are hammered out they finally become affordable here! :p God forbid, Gingas might finally become affordable again in Europe! ;)
 
J,

the prospect of new trade agreements brings a chill to those of us in the UK who currently enjoy paying no VAT or import tarrifs on goods purchased in the EU

:-(
 
There is still a little time, I will ship the 4k stone to Matus this week, so the passaround might be ready to start in about 2 weeks...But I agree, it would definitely be great if some more people would jump in, maybe we can "bump" in about one week the thread which Daveb kindly started in the main section and write there a few words in that sense that it's the last chance to join the passaround..


Jovidah said:
Might want to promote it a bit more as well; I'm sure there are some people around here who are quite active and who would like to jump in. It is a pretty unique chance to try some different stones after all...

And who knows; maybe at some point when new trade agreements are hammered out they finally become affordable here! :p God forbid, Gingas might finally become affordable again in Europe! ;)
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Devon_Steven said:
J,

the prospect of new trade agreements brings a chill to those of us in the UK who currently enjoy paying no VAT or import tarrifs on goods purchased in the EU

:-(
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Lucky bastard. :p But I don't really see that changing unless you guys drop out of the EU. But I was mostly talking about free trade agreements between the EU and US/Japan. Would drop import costs a lot and likely also cut down on the shipping costs from the US, with extra traffic and all. Maybe Jon can finally become Japanese Knife Exports! ;)
 
Jovidah said:
Lucky bastard. :p
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You enjoy the same arrangements in The Netherlands :O)

Jovidah said:
But I don't really see that changing unless you guys drop out of the EU.
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As I'm sure you know, there is a referendum on that very question here in June! If we leave, at a stroke, any knife that I buy from an EU retailer will increase in cost by 28.5 per cent (20 per cent VAT and 8.5 per cent import duty). That's a chilling thought.

Jovidah said:
But I was mostly talking about free trade agreements between the EU and US/Japan.
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Are there any re-negotiations in the pipeline?

Anyway, in the UK case (see figures above) the import duty for ex-EU kitchen knives is a relatively minor part of the overall cost which also includes VAT. So, even a complete scrapping of the import duty would only lower the overhead from 28.5 to 20 per cent. I imagine that the situation in NL is much the same (is it?).
 
Sorry I misread; yes there's no extra tarrifs on purchases within EU, but you still have to pay the original VAT (in the country of purchases). I thought you crazy limeys got yourselves some exempt status where you didn't have to pay that. :p
I agree; it's great within the EU. Too bad most of the knife & related goodies aren't produced here, so almost everything is still relatively expensive. And half the times it isn't even available...

I heard about the upcoming referendum. It sounds completely crazy, but who knows what the populists can get away with. To me it always makes more sense to have less bariers and tarrifs. Bigger internal markets are one of the reasons American and Japanese companies often have an edge.

And yeah there are some re-negotiations in the pipeline. There have been negotiations about a (free) trade agreement between the EU and Japan for a few years already. Last I could find was that they expected it to be hammered out somewhere in this year - but I guess with recent events in regards to refugees and such it might have been taken down a notch or two on the priorities list. Either way it'd take a few years before it's ratified so I wouldn't expect it to come into place anytime soon. But it would be a big gamechanger, especially since the shipping is already cheap due to the high volume of trade from Asia to Europe. Could mean a 20-25% price drop on all the Japanese toys. Or not having to play 'dodge the customs' anymore.

With the US it's of course TTIP, but that has become such a hot issue over the food & agriculture issues that it might be a while before that ever comes into fruition. Even then the shipping costs are still an issue and I expect it to take quite some time before volume increases to such an extent that it has an impact on pricing. But who knows... This is all marred in a lot of ifs and buts and I'd be surprised if they can ever get it through now that it has attracted so much public opposition. So in the short-medium term I'd put my money on the trade agreement with Japan.
 
Jovidah said:
Last I could find was that they expected it to be hammered out somewhere in this year
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So you prefer a hammered trade agreement to a ground one? :yammer:

---

Thanks for the details about the trade agreements.

Speaking of ex-EU shipping costs, did you notice that Jon at JKI has found a cheaper international shipping method? I don't know how much cheaper it is, but he mentioned it while promoting his re-designed web site.
 
Well I noticed he is at least cheaper than for example ChessKnightsToGo and some others. But the issue isn't just the shipping (although it does make it worse). The problem is paying tax (21%) some extra tariffs (don't know for knives but it's a few %), both of those over the cost of both product and shipping, and then the handling fee of about 10-15 euros (it varies). So when all said and done that's about a 25% surcharge on the total shipped price...
So for example a 200 dollar knife with a 30 dollar shipping charge would end up costing about 270-275 euros - around 300 dollars.

Of course there's always the option of trying to dodge them, but that's always a gamble. On top of that I fully understand it's not something serious vendors would necessarily indulge in as essentially it is still fraud and might risk their business.
I think if Jon really wanted to get serious about selling in Europe the only feasible option would be through an intermediary and ship everything from Japan directly. That way you cut down on all the extra shipping immensely and you avoid paying tarrifs twice. But I don't see that happening; he already has enough trouble keeping product stocked as it is so it seems like his problem is supply more than demand.

Long story short: in the end we're all screwed here until we get some free trade agreements with the US & Japan. :)
 
Without a hint of intention to continue the discussion on VAT & imports, I fear that the quick-wins of this planned agreement may be overshadowed by large issues that most of us (me included) have hard time understanding. I have yet to see honest and serious effort by any government on this side of the pond to allow ordinary people to get a basic understanding what that big deal actually really means, and it leaves a strange feeling in my stomach.

Back on topic - this pass-around is still 'open' and will be for about 2 more weeks, so there is time to jump on!
 
Matus said:
Without a hint of intention to continue the discussion on VAT & imports, I fear that the quick-wins of this planned agreement may be overshadowed by large issues that most of us (me included) have hard time understanding. I have yet to see honest and serious effort by any government on this side of the pond to allow ordinary people to get a basic understanding what that big deal actually really means, and it leaves a strange feeling in my stomach.
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Yeah sorry to hijack the thread there. :)
But I see what you mean; the EU hasn't exactly done a good job on giving the citizens ownership of these deals and there certainly is a troubling influence of lobby groups and 'big money'. On the other hand I cannot help but see a lot of opposition against it being arranged with hidden agendas or for other suspicious reasons like foreign interests. These days it seems quite easy to mobilize fear and naysayers through social media even when most people don't have any clue about the actual content or the bigger picture. Not to say that there aren't very valid issues (mostly food- and agriculture-related I'd say), and the lack of transparancy by the EU certainly hasn't helped to mitigate the fears... but I do feel like "we" are about to "throw the baby out with the bathwater".
 
Apologies also for going off-topic.

I'll close my part in the import-export discussion with a link to a TTIP info. resource, created by a campaign group here in the UK: https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/pages/ttip_more_information

The group also organised a petition of MEPs regarding concerns over TTIP; they got over 3 million signatures and it has now been sent to the relevant MEPs.
 
ABOUT 38 DEGREES
38 Degrees is the angle at which an avalanche happens. In the UK, 38 Degrees will enable people to act together, to create an avalanche for change.
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As a mountaineer I must say I stopped reading after that... ;) Avalanches do not necessarily happen at 38 degrees, they can go as low as 20. But in the right conditions, without disturbance snow can stack as steep as 51 degrees before it collapses.
Throw that in at your next cocktail party!

But actually its symthomatic of my 'problem' with the whole discussion on it: I don't want to claim that what they say is right or wrong, but the discussion is largely powered by these campaign groups and 'general interests' groups of whom it is not always clear who and whose interests they exactly represent. Admittedly this is a problematic development with 'public society' in general in the last few years. You see the same thing in the Netherlands with 'animal rights groups' that are often campaigning with ulterior motives, or for example anti-fracking groups in Eastern Europe that were supported by Russia (because it undermined dependence on Russian gas).

Fun fact: I read and post on a knife forum to avoid my studies....and then hijack threads on said forum to talk about stuff that relates to my studying. :eyebrow: Strange how that works out. I swear, university should just order me to do anything I want except studies, just so that I start doing them to procrastinate all the other stuff...
 
Hey how's the passaround going? Can I be also included?
 
andur said:
Hey how's the passaround going? Can I be also included?
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Yes, of course, as we wrote, the more people will be in, the better! I sent the 4k stone to Matus on Friday, along with some other things he lent me for some testing (that was the reason why I sent it only on Friday), so it will certainly arrive within the next week, so I still believe the passaround should be ready to start in about 10 days...
 
andur said:
How do I participate?
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If you are interested, live in EU and are a nice guy/gal than you are most welcome to join :) We will post one more thread to collect the names and lay out the rules, but I will try to make sure that those wo expressed interest here will not be left behind.

I will start the second thread once I have all the stones ready (means 400 and 4000 glued on the bases) and have a reasonable & reusable solution how to pack them safely, so that I can let you know the weight/size of the package.
 
I'm interested as well, however I won't be back in EU for a a few weeks at least, so keep me in mind, but I may have to dip out of the pass around if I'm still in the US.
 
kielasaurus said:
I'm interested as well, however I won't be back in EU for a a few weeks at least, so keep me in mind, but I may have to dip out of the pass around if I'm still in the US.
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It should be no problem to put you later on the list - just let me know once you will be coming and we will get it sorted out.

UPDATE:
The stones arrived safely from Jan. I should have them glued on bases this week and also have the packaging figured out. Once that happens a new thread will be posted. Stay tuned :)
 
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