Summary
tl;dr aggregate information about Japanese knives and knife shopping in Japan.
Hello Kitchen Knife Forum Friends,
I recently did a lot of research into Japanese knives ahead of a trip to Japan. I used to live there, back before I was serious about knives. Im a chef and rather technical but I know nothing of metallurgy or blacksmithing so take all of this info with a grain of salt. My better half is fluent in Japanese and knows nothing of knives; I know survival Japanese and a bit about knives. We made for an effective shopping pair.
I wanted to give back to these forums because I found all of your discussions and advice invaluable.
On this trip I purchased a Tanaka Yoshikazu (generic) wa gyuto 240mm blue steel 1 (aogami 1):
I was hoping to buy a Shigefusa or one of the other candidates listed below but was unable to find it at the half dozen shops I visited. Its possible to go to Sakai to buy them but I didnt have time. Everyone we spoke with suggested buying them online, since production of those high quality knives from smaller blacksmiths is limited.
I hadnt found the following on these forums or others: theres no such thing as a Takeda or Shigefusa brand knife. As you probably know, those are the smiths who work the steel and create the blade. Shigefusa is a blacksmith shop, not an individual such as Iizuka Tokifusa or his sons who run the blacksmith. However, smiths often sell a stamped and generic (unmarked) version of their blade that can be branded by the distributor or consumer shop.
There are many parties involved in the creation of a high quality Japanese blade: the ore / steel provider, the blacksmith, the distributor, the handle woodworker, the assembler, possibly another distributor, the sharpener, and the final seller or shop. The distributor, assembler, or shop can brand a blade with their shop name, even if its from a well known smith; the shop Kamata is a good example of this.
If you walk into Japanese shops asking for a Shigefusa knife is not the right approach. Saying specifically that you want aogami 1 steel 240mm gyuto from Shigefusa is a better place to start.
Japans knife industry has the same trust relations between those parties as it did 150 years ago. This is why its not necessary for blacksmiths to create an entire knife end to end; each party in the chain trusts the others and the blades are insured for life.
If youre planning a knife shopping trip to Japan, I highly recommend:
* Kappabashi in Tokyo
* Sakai near Osaka
* Bringing someone fluent in Japanese
* Doing research in advance about what you want, but being flexible
Apologies for the formatting, I had this in a google doc and there seems to be no magic way to convert to this forum.
Candidates
wa handle
* Shigefusa 重房 Kasumi 240mm wa gyuto $550 193g?, 50mm?/54mm? height at heel, HRC 64?
* Takeda 武田刃物 wa gyuto 240mm $330 -- kurouchi / rustic (not quite damascus) style steel, AS super steel or blue steel?, HRC 62-63 (main site)
* Masamoto (Sohonten) 正本総本店 KS Wa-Gyuto 240mm / 9.4 (KS-3124) $345 162g ?, Hitachi White steel HRC 62, 49mm? height at heel
* Nakaya Heiji 中屋平治 wa gyuto 240mm $550 -- Iwasaki's special Swedish carbon steel (semi stainless??) HRC 62-63?
* Tanaka
? Hattori -- VG-10 steel?
? Kikuichi
Reminders
Knife must be opened (ground appropriately) before first use (might just be for single bevel?). Ask seller to do this. Itll be obvious if not opened -- the blade will be dull before.
Brands
by price for entry level gyuto
http://www.mtckitchen.com/t-aboutourknifebrands.aspx
Tsukiji Masamoto is not the same as Masamoto Sohonten (original), and the latter (sohonten) is considered the superior brand.
$1000+
Konosuke Blue #2 Honyaki Gyuto 240mm
$500+
Nu batama (note this is all one word but this forum censors it because it sounds like N0000008)
Shigefusa
Heiji
Yoshiaki Fujiwara / Kiyoshi Kato
$400+
Aritsugu
Masamoto Sohonten
Tadatsuna
$300+
Tsukiji Masamoto wa-gyuto 240mm 170g
Takamura
$200+
Kiyotsuna and Ikkaku Donryu are both produced by Shimizu Cutlery
Kikuichi
Konosuke HD2 very popular laser 2.3mm
Sugimoto -- mixed / negative reviews
$150+
Misono
MAC -- MAC Pro, good if you want a western handle, or stainless
Aritsugu A-Style HRC 60 +/- 1 ? semi stainless?
$100+
Sakon (Tosa Cutlery)
Sakai Takayuki
Global
Shun / Kai Corporation
Kaneshige
TODO
Korin
Asai aogami
Nenohi / Haku
Takamura
Kanetsugu
Sabatier
Masahiro
Kasumi
Takeda
Hattori
Kagayaki
Heiji
Masakage
Types
gyuto - chefs knife
deba bocho - rounded, fish scaling
usuba 薄刃 - thin, vegetables, single bevel
nakiri 菜切 - thin, vegetables, double bevel
santoku - thin, general purpose / chefs, shorter, may have dimples / divots
kiritsuke - thin, sashimi slicing or vegetable peeling
steel
VG-10 stainless?
white carbon steel
black carbon steel
blue carbon steel
AS Aogami super steel -- not as hard as SG-2?
SG-2
The steel progression chart. Summary:
toughness (weaker edge, less brittle) <---> hardness (holds edge, more brittle)
white steel 2 < blue steel 2 < white steel 1 < blue steel 1 < blue super steel
blades and finishing
laser - nickname, extra thin (2mm above heel), has more flex than you might want
honyaki - single material high carbon differentially hardened, super expensive, better edge retention, more difficult to sharpen
warikomi - clad knifes, two materials
kasumi - "mist", two materials: high carbon steel (hagane) and soft iron (jigane)
kitaeji - laminated steel
http://zknives.com/knives/articles/jpnknifecladtypes.shtml
http://zknives.com/knives/kitchen/misc/jpnktknvterms.shtml#WARIKOKMI
Bevels / Grinds
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grind
http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63443/bevels-double-bevels-angles-im-confused
single bevel = chisel bevel ?
chisel - flat on one side, edge on the other
single bevel 片刃である
double bevel / compound 両刃であり
Where to Buy in Japan
Outside Tokyo
* Sakai Ichimonji -- Sakai, Osaka is the blacksmithing home.
* Isetan
* Kanesoh
Tokyo
* Kiya 木屋 in Nihonbashi 日本橋, Chuo-ku Tokyo across the road of Mitsukoshi Department Store.
* http://www.kiya-hamono.co.jp/
* Nihonbashi-Muromachi 2-2-1
* Chuo-Ku Tokyo Coredo-Muromachi. 1F
* 〒103-0022
* Tel 03-3241-0110
* 10am - 8pm seven days a week
* Cutlery Kiya
* Nihonbashi-Muromachi 4-6-2
* Chuo-Ku Tokyo Ryouka-Bldg.4F
* 〒103-0022
* Tel 03-3241-1141
* Asakusa, Moreihei http://www.morihei.co.jp/english/index.html
* Ueno?, Kikusue http://www.tokyo-ueno.jp/omise/shopping/50kikusue.html
* Shibuya, Tokyu Hands (likely just for Global, MAC, and the like)
* ? Miyakoya
* ?? Nihombashi Takashimaya 7F
* ?? Tokyu Toyoko west building 8F
Tsukiji Jogai
* Azuma Minamato-no Masahisa 東源正久 (あずまみなもとのまさひさ
* http://www.tsukiji-masahisa.jp/
* 東京都中央区築地4-13-7 〒104-0045
* * 通常営業日 5:30～15:30
* 市場休市日 9:00～15:00
* Aritsugu (Tsukiji)（株）有次
* 4 Chome-13-6 Tsukiji
* Chuo, Tokyo 104-0045
* Sugimoto
* http://www.sugimoto-hamono.com/
* Tsukiji Masamoto
Asakusa, Kappabashi 合羽橋 aka kitchen town
* Kamata かまた http://www.kap-kam.com/
* Some Misono maybe Masamoto but mostly Kamatas own brand.
* Yubinbango 111-0036 Taito-ku, Tokyo 2-12-6 Matsugaya
* Telephone number:03-3841-4205
* HoursMonday to Saturday) 10:00 to 18:00
* 10:30 to 17:30 (Sundays and public holidays)
* 住所：〒111-0036 東京都台東区松が谷2-12-6
* 電話番号：03-3841-4205
* 営業時間：10:00-18:00 (月曜〜土曜
* 10:30-17:30 (日曜・祝日
* Union Commerce
* Mostly western knives but maybe Masamoto.
* Nishi Asakusa 2-22-6, Taito-ku, tel. 03 3845 4040
* 2丁目22-6西浅草都台東区、東京都
* http://www.unioncommerce.co.jp/
* Kama-asa ?? 所在地
* 所在地
* 〒111 - 0036 東京都台東区松が谷 2 - 24 - 1
* Yubinbango 111 - 0036, Taito-ku, Tokyo Matsugaya 2 - 1 - 24
* TEL 03 - 3841 - 9355
* FAX 03 - 3845 - 4590
* Mon - Sat AM 9:30 ~ PM 17:30
* Sundays and holidays AM 10:00 ~ PM 17:30
* TDI knife shop (Tokyo Direct Import)
* Mostly Global and lower end brands?
* 1-9-13, Matsugaya,Taito-ku
* Telephone: 03-3844-7561
* Hours:9:30am-5:30pm (Mon to Sat) 10:30am-5:30pm (Sun & Holidays)
* http://www.kwtdi.com/
* Ippin Tsubaya つば屋包丁店（かっぱ橋道具街）
* http://e288.jp/
* 〒111-0035 東京都台東区西浅草 3-7-2
* Yubinbango111-0035 Taito-ku, Tokyo 3-7-2 Nishiasakusa
* 03-3845-2005
* 00: 00-17: 45 days public holidays 9:00 to 17:00 on weekdays 9
Shibuya
Yoshizawa Riko 吉沢利工
（株）吉沢利工
〒150-0043 東京都渋谷区道玄坂２丁目６−１２
道玄坂トロワー 1F
Gyuto Lengths
21cm / 8
24cm / 9 ½
27cm / 10
Handles
wa - wood handle, often hexagonal?, ho wood (Japanese magnolia)
yo - grip formed western style handles
Background info and discussions
* http://www.cheftalk.com/a/japanese-knives-101
* http://www.cheftalk.com/t/62187/another-help-me-pick-the-best-japanese-knife-thread
* http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...samoto-vs-Shigefusa-Gyuto-Profile-Preferences
* Konosuke Honyaki Aogami #2 240mm Gyuto
* saltydog https://www.youtube.com/user/Saltydog55252/videos?view=0&sort=p&flow=grid
* lots of photos http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/842125-Artisan-Chef-Knives
* sanmai (laminating technique) http://www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/amat/def_en/articles/steel_collector/japanese_sword.html
* japanese knife vocabulary http://www.zknives.com/knives/kitchen/misc/usetype/all/index.shtml
* more shops in japan http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/913237/
* types of steel (blue steel, white steel) https://www.hidatool.com/image/data/pdf/White Steel vs Blue Steel Chart.pdf
* gyuto comparison (shoot out) http://***********************/2011/01/great-gyuto-shoot-out.html
Vocabulary / Japanese
* gyuto 牛刀 http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/牛刀
* 鋼 steel
* carbon steel 炭素鋼（たんそこう、
* hagane = full metal ? or just steel ? 鋼
* Rockwell hardness ロックウェル硬さ (ロックウェルかたさ
* open the blade
* single bevel 片刃である
* double bevel / compound 両刃であり
Purchased
Shop: Kama-asa in Kappabashi, Tokyo http://www.kama-asa.co.jp/
Brand: generic (unbranded, direct from manufacturer)
Blacksmith (鍛冶: Tanaka, Yoshikazu (田中 義一, based in Sakai 鍛冶 田中 義一
Handle: wa (wood) : ?? Ho wood / Buffalo horn ?
Steel: blue steel 1 (aogami 1); laminated (piled)
Type: gyuto (chef knife)
Length: 240mm
Bevel: 50/50
Price: 27500 JPY (~ $250 USD in 2014)
Manufacturer Tsukiji Masamoto
Style Gyuto
Blade Material SK Carbon Steel
Handle Material (Hō Japanese Magnolia
HRC 61
Bevel Angle Ratio 50/50
Length 240mm
Weight 6 oz
P
tl;dr aggregate information about Japanese knives and knife shopping in Japan.
Hello Kitchen Knife Forum Friends,
I recently did a lot of research into Japanese knives ahead of a trip to Japan. I used to live there, back before I was serious about knives. Im a chef and rather technical but I know nothing of metallurgy or blacksmithing so take all of this info with a grain of salt. My better half is fluent in Japanese and knows nothing of knives; I know survival Japanese and a bit about knives. We made for an effective shopping pair.
I wanted to give back to these forums because I found all of your discussions and advice invaluable.
On this trip I purchased a Tanaka Yoshikazu (generic) wa gyuto 240mm blue steel 1 (aogami 1):
I was hoping to buy a Shigefusa or one of the other candidates listed below but was unable to find it at the half dozen shops I visited. Its possible to go to Sakai to buy them but I didnt have time. Everyone we spoke with suggested buying them online, since production of those high quality knives from smaller blacksmiths is limited.
I hadnt found the following on these forums or others: theres no such thing as a Takeda or Shigefusa brand knife. As you probably know, those are the smiths who work the steel and create the blade. Shigefusa is a blacksmith shop, not an individual such as Iizuka Tokifusa or his sons who run the blacksmith. However, smiths often sell a stamped and generic (unmarked) version of their blade that can be branded by the distributor or consumer shop.
There are many parties involved in the creation of a high quality Japanese blade: the ore / steel provider, the blacksmith, the distributor, the handle woodworker, the assembler, possibly another distributor, the sharpener, and the final seller or shop. The distributor, assembler, or shop can brand a blade with their shop name, even if its from a well known smith; the shop Kamata is a good example of this.
If you walk into Japanese shops asking for a Shigefusa knife is not the right approach. Saying specifically that you want aogami 1 steel 240mm gyuto from Shigefusa is a better place to start.
Japans knife industry has the same trust relations between those parties as it did 150 years ago. This is why its not necessary for blacksmiths to create an entire knife end to end; each party in the chain trusts the others and the blades are insured for life.
If youre planning a knife shopping trip to Japan, I highly recommend:
* Kappabashi in Tokyo
* Sakai near Osaka
* Bringing someone fluent in Japanese
* Doing research in advance about what you want, but being flexible
Apologies for the formatting, I had this in a google doc and there seems to be no magic way to convert to this forum.
Candidates
wa handle
* Shigefusa 重房 Kasumi 240mm wa gyuto $550 193g?, 50mm?/54mm? height at heel, HRC 64?
* Takeda 武田刃物 wa gyuto 240mm $330 -- kurouchi / rustic (not quite damascus) style steel, AS super steel or blue steel?, HRC 62-63 (main site)
* Masamoto (Sohonten) 正本総本店 KS Wa-Gyuto 240mm / 9.4 (KS-3124) $345 162g ?, Hitachi White steel HRC 62, 49mm? height at heel
* Nakaya Heiji 中屋平治 wa gyuto 240mm $550 -- Iwasaki's special Swedish carbon steel (semi stainless??) HRC 62-63?
* Tanaka
? Hattori -- VG-10 steel?
? Kikuichi
Reminders
Knife must be opened (ground appropriately) before first use (might just be for single bevel?). Ask seller to do this. Itll be obvious if not opened -- the blade will be dull before.
Brands
by price for entry level gyuto
http://www.mtckitchen.com/t-aboutourknifebrands.aspx
Tsukiji Masamoto is not the same as Masamoto Sohonten (original), and the latter (sohonten) is considered the superior brand.
$1000+
Konosuke Blue #2 Honyaki Gyuto 240mm
$500+
Nu batama (note this is all one word but this forum censors it because it sounds like N0000008)
Shigefusa
Heiji
Yoshiaki Fujiwara / Kiyoshi Kato
$400+
Aritsugu
Masamoto Sohonten
Tadatsuna
$300+
Tsukiji Masamoto wa-gyuto 240mm 170g
Takamura
$200+
Kiyotsuna and Ikkaku Donryu are both produced by Shimizu Cutlery
Kikuichi
Konosuke HD2 very popular laser 2.3mm
Sugimoto -- mixed / negative reviews
$150+
Misono
MAC -- MAC Pro, good if you want a western handle, or stainless
Aritsugu A-Style HRC 60 +/- 1 ? semi stainless?
$100+
Sakon (Tosa Cutlery)
Sakai Takayuki
Global
Shun / Kai Corporation
Kaneshige
TODO
Korin
Asai aogami
Nenohi / Haku
Takamura
Kanetsugu
Sabatier
Masahiro
Kasumi
Takeda
Hattori
Kagayaki
Heiji
Masakage
Types
gyuto - chefs knife
deba bocho - rounded, fish scaling
usuba 薄刃 - thin, vegetables, single bevel
nakiri 菜切 - thin, vegetables, double bevel
santoku - thin, general purpose / chefs, shorter, may have dimples / divots
kiritsuke - thin, sashimi slicing or vegetable peeling
steel
VG-10 stainless?
white carbon steel
black carbon steel
blue carbon steel
AS Aogami super steel -- not as hard as SG-2?
SG-2
The steel progression chart. Summary:
toughness (weaker edge, less brittle) <---> hardness (holds edge, more brittle)
white steel 2 < blue steel 2 < white steel 1 < blue steel 1 < blue super steel
blades and finishing
laser - nickname, extra thin (2mm above heel), has more flex than you might want
honyaki - single material high carbon differentially hardened, super expensive, better edge retention, more difficult to sharpen
warikomi - clad knifes, two materials
kasumi - "mist", two materials: high carbon steel (hagane) and soft iron (jigane)
kitaeji - laminated steel
http://zknives.com/knives/articles/jpnknifecladtypes.shtml
http://zknives.com/knives/kitchen/misc/jpnktknvterms.shtml#WARIKOKMI
Bevels / Grinds
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grind
http://www.cheftalk.com/t/63443/bevels-double-bevels-angles-im-confused
single bevel = chisel bevel ?
chisel - flat on one side, edge on the other
single bevel 片刃である
double bevel / compound 両刃であり
Where to Buy in Japan
Outside Tokyo
* Sakai Ichimonji -- Sakai, Osaka is the blacksmithing home.
* Isetan
* Kanesoh
Tokyo
* Kiya 木屋 in Nihonbashi 日本橋, Chuo-ku Tokyo across the road of Mitsukoshi Department Store.
* http://www.kiya-hamono.co.jp/
* Nihonbashi-Muromachi 2-2-1
* Chuo-Ku Tokyo Coredo-Muromachi. 1F
* 〒103-0022
* Tel 03-3241-0110
* 10am - 8pm seven days a week
* Cutlery Kiya
* Nihonbashi-Muromachi 4-6-2
* Chuo-Ku Tokyo Ryouka-Bldg.4F
* 〒103-0022
* Tel 03-3241-1141
* Asakusa, Moreihei http://www.morihei.co.jp/english/index.html
* Ueno?, Kikusue http://www.tokyo-ueno.jp/omise/shopping/50kikusue.html
* Shibuya, Tokyu Hands (likely just for Global, MAC, and the like)
* ? Miyakoya
* ?? Nihombashi Takashimaya 7F
* ?? Tokyu Toyoko west building 8F
Tsukiji Jogai
* Azuma Minamato-no Masahisa 東源正久 (あずまみなもとのまさひさ
* http://www.tsukiji-masahisa.jp/
* 東京都中央区築地4-13-7 〒104-0045
* * 通常営業日 5:30～15:30
* 市場休市日 9:00～15:00
* Aritsugu (Tsukiji)（株）有次
* 4 Chome-13-6 Tsukiji
* Chuo, Tokyo 104-0045
* Sugimoto
* http://www.sugimoto-hamono.com/
* Tsukiji Masamoto
Asakusa, Kappabashi 合羽橋 aka kitchen town
* Kamata かまた http://www.kap-kam.com/
* Some Misono maybe Masamoto but mostly Kamatas own brand.
* Yubinbango 111-0036 Taito-ku, Tokyo 2-12-6 Matsugaya
* Telephone number:03-3841-4205
* Hours
Monday to Saturday) 10:00 to 18:00* 10:30 to 17:30 (Sundays and public holidays)
* 住所：〒111-0036 東京都台東区松が谷2-12-6
* 電話番号：03-3841-4205
* 営業時間：10:00-18:00 (月曜〜土曜
* 10:30-17:30 (日曜・祝日
* Union Commerce
* Mostly western knives but maybe Masamoto.
* Nishi Asakusa 2-22-6, Taito-ku, tel. 03 3845 4040
* 2丁目22-6西浅草都台東区、東京都
* http://www.unioncommerce.co.jp/
* Kama-asa ?? 所在地
* 所在地
* 〒111 - 0036 東京都台東区松が谷 2 - 24 - 1
* Yubinbango 111 - 0036, Taito-ku, Tokyo Matsugaya 2 - 1 - 24
* TEL 03 - 3841 - 9355
* FAX 03 - 3845 - 4590
* Mon - Sat AM 9:30 ~ PM 17:30
* Sundays and holidays AM 10:00 ~ PM 17:30
* TDI knife shop (Tokyo Direct Import)
* Mostly Global and lower end brands?
* 1-9-13, Matsugaya,Taito-ku
* Telephone: 03-3844-7561
* Hours:9:30am-5:30pm (Mon to Sat) 10:30am-5:30pm (Sun & Holidays)
* http://www.kwtdi.com/
* Ippin Tsubaya つば屋包丁店（かっぱ橋道具街）
* http://e288.jp/
* 〒111-0035 東京都台東区西浅草 3-7-2
* Yubinbango111-0035 Taito-ku, Tokyo 3-7-2 Nishiasakusa
* 03-3845-2005
* 00: 00-17: 45 days public holidays 9:00 to 17:00 on weekdays 9
Shibuya
Yoshizawa Riko 吉沢利工
（株）吉沢利工
〒150-0043 東京都渋谷区道玄坂２丁目６−１２
道玄坂トロワー 1F
Gyuto Lengths
21cm / 8
24cm / 9 ½
27cm / 10
Handles
wa - wood handle, often hexagonal?, ho wood (Japanese magnolia)
yo - grip formed western style handles
Background info and discussions
* http://www.cheftalk.com/a/japanese-knives-101
* http://www.cheftalk.com/t/62187/another-help-me-pick-the-best-japanese-knife-thread
* http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...samoto-vs-Shigefusa-Gyuto-Profile-Preferences
* Konosuke Honyaki Aogami #2 240mm Gyuto
* saltydog https://www.youtube.com/user/Saltydog55252/videos?view=0&sort=p&flow=grid
* lots of photos http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/842125-Artisan-Chef-Knives
* sanmai (laminating technique) http://www.tf.uni-kiel.de/matwis/amat/def_en/articles/steel_collector/japanese_sword.html
* japanese knife vocabulary http://www.zknives.com/knives/kitchen/misc/usetype/all/index.shtml
* more shops in japan http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/913237/
* types of steel (blue steel, white steel) https://www.hidatool.com/image/data/pdf/White Steel vs Blue Steel Chart.pdf
* gyuto comparison (shoot out) http://***********************/2011/01/great-gyuto-shoot-out.html
Vocabulary / Japanese
* gyuto 牛刀 http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/牛刀
* 鋼 steel
* carbon steel 炭素鋼（たんそこう、
* hagane = full metal ? or just steel ? 鋼
* Rockwell hardness ロックウェル硬さ (ロックウェルかたさ
* open the blade
* single bevel 片刃である
* double bevel / compound 両刃であり
Purchased
Shop: Kama-asa in Kappabashi, Tokyo http://www.kama-asa.co.jp/
Brand: generic (unbranded, direct from manufacturer)
Blacksmith (鍛冶
: Tanaka, Yoshikazu (田中 義一, based in Sakai 鍛冶 田中 義一Handle: wa (wood) : ?? Ho wood / Buffalo horn ?
Steel: blue steel 1 (aogami 1); laminated (piled)
Type: gyuto (chef knife)
Length: 240mm
Bevel: 50/50
Price: 27500 JPY (~ $250 USD in 2014)
Manufacturer Tsukiji Masamoto
Style Gyuto
Blade Material SK Carbon Steel
Handle Material (Hō
Japanese MagnoliaHRC 61
Bevel Angle Ratio 50/50
Length 240mm
Weight 6 oz
P
