Fake Ashi Honyaki Sold

[Corradobrit1]

for me this would be say 1K USD or below - then it actually would be a decent buy

Too generous.

 

[Luftmensch]

Too generous.

In the last round of bidding I saw 70,000 JPY. I thought that seemed like a reasonable price? It aint an Ashi but it doesn't look like terrible quality either...

 

[Corradobrit1]

In the last round of bidding I saw 70,000 JPY. I thought that seemed like a reasonable price? It aint an Ashi but it doesn't look like terrible quality either...

Thats where I'd place it for the knife to be a reasonable buy.

 

[danemonji]

Another two fake Ashi from the same line popped up in 240 and 270. I think they wanted to sell the 210 hoping to make the crowd go wild, and then introduce the 240 and lastly the 270 to maximize the sales. Now they just put all the knives on the table for prices in the 3k usd range.

 

[Corradobrit1]

Where are you finding the 240 & 270? Couldn't see them listed by the guy selling the dodgy 210, which has been relisted with a starting price of 3K yen. There are a couple of suspect Yoshiaki Fujiwara items up too from other sellers. Gotta tread carefully these days. Too much profit being made which is bringing out some bad dudes hoping to cash in.

OK found them. Yes same line as the 210 and DEF not Hiroshi Ashi. The seller of the 240 and 270 doesn't appear to pretend they are Ashi Honyaki unlike the seller of the 210, although mentions Ashi. Is Ichitosai Toratou a retailer?

 

[khashy]

@Corradobrit1 and @danemonji , it would help if you could post photos of the others here (just photos), in case anyone doesn’t know what we are talking about and may be thinking of bidding

 

[Luftmensch]

I am not claiming these are NOT Ashi. They may be... in either case it is a lot of coin to drop on something you haven't physically inspected. Buyer beware. I am posting the images here at the request of the thread:

240mm

270mm

 

[Corradobrit1]

That hamon line looks nothing like any genuine Ashi Honyaki I've ever seen. Looks more akin to Shiraki's or Shiraki Hamono work

 

[valgard]

No way in hell that's Ashi

 

[Luftmensch]

Looks more akin to Shiraki's or Shiraki Hamono work

The exact same thing came to my mind.

I am not claiming these are NOT Ashi.

Just covering my ass... Aspects of the industry are not completely transparent. While I wouldnt say these are definitely not Ashi. I would say they are not definitely Ashi (and on balance most likely not Ashi)

By the same token, since people pay Ashi prices to get an Ashi, there is too much risk around these examples to pay such exorbitant prices.

 

[Corradobrit1]

Compare the ones above with the Razorsharp example. They are an insult to Hiroshi Ashi. No one should be under ANY illusion that they might be getting the real thing. While they 'could' be decent knives the asking prices are ludicrous and the seller's are trying to con unsuspecting/uneducated buyers. IMO they are sub-$1K blades.

 

[Luftmensch]

Don't get me wrong... I am 99% for the proposition they are not Ashi.

I am not trying to be irritating or deliberately playing the devils advocate. I am just leaving a minuscule amount of wiggle room for the possibility that a master craftsman could change profile, grind and even the hamon at the request of a vendor (although this would seem to be at odds with why the vendor would approach them in the first place). Again, some of these processes are opaque and generate rumours about blacksmiths and steel choice etc...

Point being, unless you are an insider and have access to information that we do not, it is best to assume they are not Ashi (by a long margin). They dont have characteristic hallmarks that make these examples definitively Ashi to my eye.

 

[khashy]

Thank you for posting the photos. I’m happy to state that these are absolutely definitely not Ashi honyakis.

I am absolutely with your guess of Shiraki hamono.

 

[corygrapher]

Another input about this. Look how different the kanji on the knives are. The kanji "刀" should be connected (the upper right corner). The kanji "虎" doesn't have the little hook in the bottom pic.

 

[Corradobrit1]

I'm curious to know what the kanji say

 

[corygrapher]

纯 pure
日本 Japanese
鋼 Steel

一刀斎虎徹 Brand name
作 Made

I'm curious to know what the kanji say

 

[Corradobrit1]

The 210 sold for 171K JPY.

 

[Luftmensch]

The 210 sold for 171K JPY.

Roughly Shiraki prices

 

[Corradobrit1]

Roughly Shiraki prices

Not really. This 240 sells for $1300 and looks better made. I know which I would buy. Someone paid 2x what that 210 is worth.
https://hitohira-japan.com/products/daa-800-fa240?_pos=4&_sid=3003870fb&_ss=r&variant=13077227831349

 

[Luftmensch]

Wow... It was only 210? I missed that. I assumed 240. Gee...

The Hitohira Shiraki has a nice polish on it! Shiraki in my part of the world seem to be pegged at around $1700 USD. Better made or not, at least the vendor is reliable, honest and I am protected by consumer law!

 

[danemonji]

Guys most of the bids are staged
They have someone bidding to entice the naive bidders and raise the price artificially.
So they either fooled someone in believing that it was a desired piece or they bid for it themselves and the knife will show up on the auction again.
This is the second time they pulled this stunt with this knife and only switched boxes.
What i would suggest is to remember the seller's name as he is not to be trusted with any items. Probably scammer with false advertising and possible fake items.

 

[Corradobrit1]

Guys most of the bids are staged
They have someone bidding to entice the naive bidders and raise the price artificially.
So they either fooled someone in believing that it was a desired piece or they bid for it themselves and the knife will show up on the auction again.
This is the second time they pulled this stunt with this knife and only switched boxes.
What i would suggest is to remember the seller's name as he is not to be trusted with any items. Probably scammer with false advertising and possible fake items.

Not sure thats entirely true. Yes, I can believe the shill bids. But this particular knife was listed 4x, twice with low starting price and twice with a much higher starting bid (200k and then 180k JPY). The first time it was listed with low start bid the price went to $1K but seller pulled auction before the end.
There have been two 210 blades (see Khashy's OP) offered. One with and one without the "pure Japanese steel" kanji.
I have yet to see that seller repost any knife after it 'sold'

 

[Luftmensch]

Guys most of the bids are staged
They have someone bidding to entice the naive bidders and raise the price artificially.

Beyond that, I have also seen irrational behaviour where two items exist. One with a sale price (no bidding) and one at auction with a low starting price. Several times i have seen the auction price exceed the other item's sale price. Go figure... people either not searching all options or getting carried away with the emotion of the auction.

Not sure thats entirely true. Yes, I can believe the shill bids. But this particular knife was listed 4x, twice with low starting price and twice with a much higher starting bid (200k and then 180k JPY). The first time it was listed with low start bid the price went to $1K but seller pulled auction before the end.
There have been two 210 blades (see Khashy's OP) offered. One with and one without the "pure Japanese steel" kanji.
I have yet to see that seller repost any knife after it 'sold'

Agreed. The seller is definitely a flipper but I haven't noticed a pattern of recycling items through sham auctions.

 

[Corradobrit1]

Another fake Ashi Honyaki being sold as work by Hiroshi Ashi. Starting price for this 270 is $2445. Buyer beware

 

[khashy]

Another fake Ashi Honyaki being sold as work by Hiroshi Ashi. Starting price for this 270 is $2445. Buyer beware
View attachment 105406
View attachment 105407

this doesn’t even remotely look like an Ashi!!!!!

 

[Corradobrit1]

this doesn’t even remotely look like an Ashi!!!!!

Tell me about it. And seller should know better as he has sold a couple of real Ashi Honyaki in the past and knows exactly how they look and feel.

 

[Moooza]

He is a pretty reputable seller, with heaps of contacts. Very odd....

 

[GorillaGrunt]

this doesn’t even remotely look like an Ashi!!!!!

I don’t know much about honyaki but even from looking at lots of knife pictures for some time that looks like a very typical Shiraki so I’d wonder how anyone buying these wouldn’t immediately think the same.

Then again, this probably has no bearing to the item under discussion, but I’ve met people pretty into knives who believed Ashi was the Japanese word for alloy banding and didn’t know that it’s the name of one smith and forge.

 

[Corradobrit1]

I don’t know much about honyaki but even from looking at lots of knife pictures for some time that looks like a very typical Shiraki so I’d wonder how anyone buying these wouldn’t immediately think the same.

Then again, this probably has no bearing to the item under discussion, but I’ve met people pretty into knives who believed Ashi was the Japanese word for alloy banding and didn’t know that it’s the name of one smith and forge.

Actually 'ashi' describes another facet of honyaki and not the alloy banding, so they are deficient on both counts.

 

[Corradobrit1]

He is a pretty reputable seller, with heaps of contacts. Very odd....

Reputable? Thats not how I would describe the seller. His listings are full of misinformation.