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Christian1

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Some people have found evidence of the vendor yourtogiya selling stones with fake stamps. Someone noticed they had seen the stone advertised as "Nakayama Hatahoshi Maruka Sunashi Suminagashi " before without all the stamps. The stone was definitly on the unique side so was very obvious the stone was not just a look alike.

Thought people in this forum might like to know about it if they have not yet heard. I can link to the forum that had information on this but it is link to another forum so I am not sure if I can. I will upload a picture of the stone that someone saw earlier in the year without stamps compared to how it is being advertised now.

Link to picture of stone before and after https://imgur.com/a/7eqyF3b

quick edit: if this was already brough up somewhere in the forum sorry for repost, and can delete post if needed.
 
Fake stamps are easy to make and sadly very common. In particular If you buy stones via buyee or ebay you should basically ignore them and only use the photos on them. The fact is - with most stones- if these are not stamped right away after they were cut and shaped, it becomes next to impossible to tell them from similar stones from other layers or mines. There are exceptions of course. I personally only trust a handful of vendors about the stone origin.
 
Is a sad thing indeed. Hopefully, this helps out a few people and slows down the sales of this vendor.
 
The purple curtain seller background in ebay is also using fake stamps. So as some Marukas and Hatahoshi in yahoo. Some of the stamps are from stamp makers who can't even copy ㋕正本山 with the same writing strokes.
 
I'm using false stamps too, just to warn anyone who may buy from me down the road.
 
Better to pay a known/trusted vendor...JNS, JKI come to mind. Always heard that most important thing about buying natural is getting them from someone you trust. I'd probably even take a handwritten stamp from Xoomg :D
 
RonB said:
I don't have any natural stones - yet. But what I wonder, (OK - suspect), is did the price go up after the stamps were added?
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You can take a stone from a less known mine and sell it as a ‘famous’ one.

Still, just origin of stone says little about its qualities.
 
I could care less about stamps and this is one of the reasons.
 
valgard said:
I could care less about stamps and this is one of the reasons.
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Yep, which is why I like to buy from trusted vendors who test the stone and give their observations when selling. And from forum members here too!
 
Stamp shmamp. A member here went to one of the wholesalers in Kyoto and was asked what stamps he’d like. I’ll take risks on certain stones but generally I’d like a photo of slurry to inform my purchase
 
But thank you OP. If it’s being conflated with quality and used to boost prices it’s good to be brought to our attention.
 
I believe this is mostly problem for people who like to use jnats for finishing straight razors. They want to get the finest stone they can get hands on. Usually, if there a main mountain stamp and another stamp saying its great for kamisori or something similiar they are willing to dish out a lot of extra cash. Vendors I like to use are Aframes/JNS/thejapantool/and a friend of mine.
 
Christian1 said:
I believe this is mostly problem for people who like to use jnats for finishing straight razors. They want to get the finest stone they can get hands on. Usually, if there a main mountain stamp and another stamp saying its great for kamisori or something similiar they are willing to dish out a lot of extra cash. Vendors I like to use are Aframes/JNS/thejapantool/and a friend of mine.
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To hone tamahagane steel, most won’t mind paying a little bit more for fine honing stone.

Not all stones sold by “trusted vendors” are good stones. I ever bought a crappy stone from one of the most mentioned vendors in this forum.
 
cwtan12 said:
To hone tamahagane steel, most won’t mind paying a little bit more for fine honing stone.

Not all stones sold by “trusted vendors” are good stones. I ever bought a crappy stone from one of the most mentioned vendors in this forum.
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I can agree to that, I was happy to pay a bit extra to get the finishing jnat I have (oozuku from thejapanstone). All the fake stamped hones were making people think they were guaranteed a quality hone while buying from an unknown vendor. Hopefully this post saves a few people from getting an overpriced average stone. On ebay yourtogiya also goes by Whetstone_and_blades as well in case anyone was looking at those listings as well.
 
+1 on the stamps shmamps. I have been through a lot of jnats. Some of my best ones have no stamps and of unknown origin but I must admit to being lucky I suppose. I have not gotten a really bad stone yet. And ones I have sold other people loved. So seems to boil down to what you like. This is admittedly after reading tons of reviews and pictures. Still haven't missed if given a very clear picture of a dry and wet stone with a slurry one thrown in.
 
Very timely. I almost bought an Ohira Suita a month ago from Yourtogiya. Advertised for 369 Euro. 2 weeks ago it was relisted in a 'fancy' lacquer box for an extra 250 Euro. I'm glad I didn't bite if this seller from Russia is so unscrupulous to add his own fake stamps. I'll stick to known vendors on the forums who can demonstrate performance.
 
Corradobrit1 said:
Very timely. I almost bought an Ohira Suita a month ago from Yourtogiya. Advertised for 369 Euro. 2 weeks ago it was relisted in a 'fancy' lacquer box for an extra 250 Euro. I'm glad I didn't bite if this seller from Russia is so unscrupulous to add his own fake stamps. I'll stick to known vendors on the forums who can demonstrate performance.
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Performance demonstrations and pictures should always be offered and given if requested, within reason. If folks won't do that for you, then just walk away.
 
tgfencer said:
Performance demonstrations and pictures should always be offered and given if requested, within reason. If folks won't do that for you, then just walk away.
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As a complete novice how do you assess the performance of a stone based on the slurry? Any other markers that differentiate a good one from a poor performer?
 
nevrknow said:
+1 on the stamps shmamps. I have been through a lot of jnats. Some of my best ones have no stamps and of unknown origin but I must admit to being lucky I suppose. I have not gotten a really bad stone yet. And ones I have sold other people loved. So seems to boil down to what you like. This is admittedly after reading tons of reviews and pictures. Still haven't missed if given a very clear picture of a dry and wet stone with a slurry one thrown in.
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I have not got a "junk" stone yet either. I have got stones that I didn't like but that is something different. But I have only had around 4 dozen naturals to this point, excluding nagura. Around here, that is just getting started. :lol2:
 
chinacats said:
I'd probably even take a handwritten stamp from Xoomg :D
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Nah, not wise:
VC1fQau.jpg
 
Corradobrit1 said:
As a complete novice how do you assess the performance of a stone based on the slurry? Any other markers that differentiate a good one from a poor performer?
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Not really a good v bad question but more of a horses-for-courses question. There are certain stories the slurry tells that is a combination of abrasiveness & friability. Generally, the darker the slurry, the faster the stone but it might only be what looks like a sprinkle of filings suspended in clear water, ie a very hard stone more suitable to razors or perhaps tool enthusiasts. How watery or muddy or sticky that slurry looks and how grey or black (or lack of grey or black) it presents is going to tell you a little about where it lands in terms of suitability. There are other signs like what a wet surface of a stone does. If it looks obviously thirsty with a rapidly diminishing surface splash but a damp looking outline where that surface water once was, it’s soft. If it just beads there without budging it’s hard. And even in the face of all these semi-informed guesses, you’d still want someone interpreting it for you by way of suitability. All the slurry pictures in the world won’t protect you from the possibility of nasty stray scratchy particles. The best, most authentic, indisputable provenance and pristine stamps won’t tell you how a stone performs. An honest seller will.
 
Wow... didnt realise quite how blatant and stupid and egregious this was.


IMG_4079.jpg

Abracadabra...


IMG_4080.jpg
 
A good reminder for caution. This "scene" like many seems to attract moneygrabbers.
 
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