Fast finishing and slow coarse stones

Discussion in 'Sharpening Station' started by musicman980, May 31, 2019.

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  1. May 31, 2019 #1

    musicman980

    musicman980

    musicman980

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    Are jnat speeds still relative to their fineness? In other words, is a slow binsui or slow aoto still usually faster than say a fast suita or other fast finisher?
     
  2. Jun 14, 2019 #2

    musicman980

    musicman980

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    No one has any clue? If your lightening fast, steel melting okudo suita wasn't so darn expensive or rare would you use it in place of the whole stone progression?
     
  3. Jun 14, 2019 #3

    tgfencer

    tgfencer

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    This question is an odd one. A coarse stone performs a different task than a finishing stone. One is used to remove large quantities of metal via thinning, reprofiing etc and the other is used to remove small amounts of metal during final stages of sharpening, polishing etc. To compare speed between the two categories makes little sense; better to compare speed within each individual category. Unfortunately, for natural stones, categorizing stones only gets you so far because they are all innately different.

    Here are a few observations:

    -Jnats, as a rule, will almost always be slower than their correlating synthetic stones. If speed is your primary goal and most desirable trait when using whetstones, then jnats probably aren't what you're looking for.

    -Each stone is unique. Assuming that because one okudo suita is fast that all others are fast cutting as well would be an error.

    -Steel types and treatment have a larger and more noticeable impact when sharpening with jnats than when using synthetics. In particular, performance will often vary with many stainless steels.

    -Skill and technique factor more heavily into jnat performance than when using synthetics. This is often particularly true of harder and/or finer finishing stones.


    As for this question, I'm not really sure what your point is. If you are asking if jnats are better than synthetics, then there is no right or wrong answer. If you're asking whether the price of jnats is worth investing in them, then that's a personal decision. Ultimately, jnats and synthetics can be used together in any combination or progression you wish. Results vary depending on the order, your skill, and what your desired outcome is.
     
    Forty Ounce and Carl Kotte like this.
  4. Jun 14, 2019 #4

    musicman980

    musicman980

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    Hey man thanks for your response, but I'm sensing a bit of a negative tone, I hope I'm wrong about that. I never mentioned synthetics, so that's a little off topic, nor did I mention speed is my primary goal, or any goal for that matter. I didn't even assume that all okudos were the same lol. Jnats being better than synthetics and the price being worth it... I don't want this to get out of hand, but you're putting a lot of words in my mouth.

    Tasks aside, this was just a question about speed, which is of course classified in the jnat world. There are several vendors and folk who give a speed level to a jnat, but they never say "this is a level 4 for an awasedo or this is a super slow stone for a nakato", they only say its level or that it's fast/slow.
     
  5. Jun 14, 2019 #5

    valgard

    valgard

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    Odd question but some fast stones can bridge the gap of a few thousand grit (say a stone that finishes 6k be able to clean scratches faster than a slow 3-4k) but that only takes you so far. It's still pretty silly to do any sort of grinding/shaping/thinning with a finishing stone, no matter how fast for its grit.
     
  6. Jun 14, 2019 #6

    valgard

    valgard

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    I've basically taken all the low spots off a Kato KU only with finishing stones and the occasional midgrit jnat. I did it by basically testing and re-testing many many stones on it and playing around a lot, not by a focused effort to thin (that would have been maddening). Long story short it took about a year of that playing around to get one side almost perfectly even .
     
  7. Jun 14, 2019 #7

    brooksie967

    brooksie967

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    The only thing those vendors are doing is comparing it to other stones that they've held/used. Yes their cutting speed is relative to their fineness. An ultra hard nakayama will not cut or remove metal as fast as a much softer stone that is more abrasive (as a rule) of course there are some dud softer stones that don't do much of anything and vice versa. Contrarily, a super fast aoto won't polish to mirror as fast (or ever) as the aforementioned ultra hard nakayama or other finishing stone.
     
  8. Jun 14, 2019 #8

    musicman980

    musicman980

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    [​IMG]
     
  9. Jun 14, 2019 #9

    musicman980

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    Thank you!
     
  10. Jun 14, 2019 #10

    tgfencer

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    It wasn’t my intention to sound negative or put words in your mouth. After reading your part about vendors I now see what you were driving at. I think I just misinterpreted your post earlier. I had a hard time figuring out exactly what you were asking and so was just trying to give you some general info hoping some of it would be useful. Probably should have just asked for clarification, but I was in a bit of a rush. I hope the others have helped answer your question.
     

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