Finishing gritt pocket knife

[Kawa]

I've been sharpening kitchen knives mostly (95%). The pocket knifes I've sharpened so far are not being used as a serious tool by those people, so 'sharp' -as in sharper then how I received it from them- was always good enough for them to do whatever they do with the knife.

For kitchen knives I've read enough topics to know what the rule of thumb is as gritt finish for certain purposes etc.

But now two of my friends started with a new hobby: bushcrafting.
It is their goal to go into the wild (as far as Holland has a 'wild'), put up a tent from scratch, with a piece of plastic and some wood for poles that they find around them. Make a fire with firestones, make some dinner and sleep in that shelter.
This does not contain 'hunter' activities. So no animal catching (no killing, skinning or preparing for food), so thats not where the knife should be good for.


I take maintaining their knives serious, because I want their tools to work for what they want to do. This time it is not only about getting the knife as sharp as I can for my own pleasure.

So I would like some advice about what kind of finishing gritt I should aim for/ think off.
My guessing would be I fairly coarse finish, for a good bite when carving wood or cutting rope. But my guessing is not enough for now, I want to do good.
Should I think of a range like 600-1000, 2000-4000, or is my guessing wrong and is a higher polish the better solution?


The knives are make from Sandvik 12C27 (brand: Mora from Sweden). The sharpening of the steel itself is very easy and feels good. I am at 5000 gritt (Naniwa superstone) right now, just to check if it has a good bite at this gritt. And yes it does. But if that all goes away at the first cut into a rope and they end up with a slick, rounded edge where they can't carve into wood anymore, it was the wrong choise i think.


So, what range should I try for the first time?
Ofcoarse I ask them for feedback and go from there for the next time. But I want to first time to the best I can for now.

 

[Teryeki]

Back when I used to work on commercial docks (not bushcrafting, but hear me out) I used to finish my knives on a DMT fine “stone” which I think they rate at 600 and it worked great for cutting rope and anything else I needed to do on the dock or on the ship.

 

[user 16756]

typically, steels like 12C27 in this kind of application would be taken to a higher grit than 4k.

you dont really slice with these kinds of knives, there's more hacking and the like. granted for a large carbide steel (e.g. s30v) you'd still probably keep the grit down, I dont believe that you get better edge retention or stability with lower grits on something fine grained like sandvik.

that said this is a bit secondary; I have mostly just used the 6k grit green compound from Bark River as that works for me, and also I have never owned any fixed blade other than a Bark River, so Im mostly passing along some stuff Ive seen other people do. the other stuff Ive tried (8k cbn compound and 8k diamond spray) have also worked but I didnt notice much difference; again the application is such that youre never going to have a great cutter on your hands anyway, because survival knives are compromised to work better at harder work.

 

[Kawa]

Interessting, 2 totally different ranges, both in good experience of you users.

I recon that my guts is telling me that this steel holds this finish (5000 superstone) well. It has above average bite at this gritt, compared to a vg10 or aus10 kitchen knife. It feels very fine grained indeed (I haven't looked for the specs of the steel, since my knowledge from what to conclude from that is close to zero), dare I say 'it feels more towards carbon steel then towards crappy nameless stainless steel). It gets and sharp edge very fast and easy.

But my ratio is telling me that I shouldnt even listen to my gutts, because I'm not formiliar with survival knives of bushcrafting needs at all.

I'm curious what more will be adviced

 

[Jovidah]

Whatever you do, make sure you give it a microbevel for extra sturdyness. The Mora knives look like they have just a plain scandi grind but according to an interview I once saw with a Mora employee they come with a microbevel from the factory as well.
Personally I think if they're serious about bushcrafting they should learn how to sharpen themselves and bring a small pocket stone.

Also, consider bringing different knives. Something like a Mora works great for splitting wood due to the thicker back and the scandi grind, but it sucks for cutting food. Even something as basic like an Opinel, while absolutely horrenduous for bushcrafting work, is miles better for food.

 

[Barmoley]

I agree with the sentiment of what kind of bushcrafting or survival playing is this if you can't sharpen your own knife???? No matter what you do the knife will need some sharpening in the field. Mora puukko style knives in 12C27 land themselves well to sharpening on anything, like river stones or any other smooth, hard stone you can find. Because of the pretend survival situation I would not go for high grid, since there is no way or point to keep that up in the field unless you bring proper stones with you. I would finish on 400-600, 1000 max. 12C27 can handle very high grid as it is a very fined grained steel, but what is the point? By the way these knives work very well for food prep in the field, so I wouldn't rule them out at all and the many I've seen didn't have a micro bevel at all from the factory. A few did, but I don't remember from which companies specifically, wasn't Mora though. You could put a microbevel ofcourse but the point of the scandi grind is sort of not to have a microbevel. Puukkos are not meant to be pounded through logs in any case, but if you have to, you have to.

Are these pocket knives (folders) or regular puukko style knives. I've never seen a Mora folder, so don't know what the grind on those is.

 

[Kawa]

They see the need of learning how to sharpen themselves. And I encourage them too. They didn't think that after 1 night of playing around their knives needed a fresh edge allready. They want to go on a second time soon and both have a 'dull' knife. They probably can't teach themselves how to sharpen their working tool in a fort night or so.

They have 3 Mora knives in total. All the same steel, but all 3 version are slightly different.

This is the first one. He thought he could learn how to maintain his knife on that little grinding plate attached to the sheath. I laughed.
https://www.knivesandtools.nl/nl/pt/-mora-bushcraft-survival-desert-13033-vaststaand-mes.htm
This is the second one. Completely different style knife, although the same steel. For me it is a horror to sharpen: the curvature at the belly is almost 90 degrees over such a small part. Even worse: the secondary bevel gets smaller where the curvature starts. So at the hardest part of the knife, which in this case is harder then any belly i have encountered, my fingerpressure feeling changes and needs adjustment aswell... Thats a lot of new variables to sharpen with.
https://www.knivesandtools.nl/nl/pt/-mora-bushcraft-forest.htm
The 3th one seems like a budget version of the first. I cant find it (its older then the other 2). But the grind looks like the first.



I notice the scandi grind in the properties with one of the links. To be honest, no idea what that means or how to account for that (do i need to?)

None of them had a microbevel, but they do have a very small cutting edge (1mm or so).
It's a good idea to think about putting one on them if they keep ruining their edges this fast

 

[Barmoley]

Wow, the second one looks so weird. Looks like a solution looking for a problem. That would be hard to sharpen. Another part on these knives that is hard for me is the edge close to the handle, doing that on a bench stone is a pain.

 

[RDalman]

Kindof soft generic steel, in hand that probably kindof or actual runs the edges in gravel.. It wont matter much what you do But finer polish should be higher strength for the edges (and more waste of your time) tell them to bring light thiner knives for cutting, and a small axe for chopping. "bushcrafters" love when you tell them this

 

[KingShapton]

I would choose a finish between 600 and 1000, max 2000 grit, maybe even below 600 grit. Lots of bite, an aggressive edge.

 

[Jovidah]

By the way these knives work very well for food prep in the field, so I wouldn't rule them out at all and the many I've seen didn't have a micro bevel at all from the factory. A few did, but I don't remember from which companies specifically, wasn't Mora though. You could put a microbevel ofcourse but the point of the scandi grind is sort of not to have a microbevel. Puukkos are not meant to be pounded through logs in any case, but if you have to, you have to.

Are these pocket knives (folders) or regular puukko style knives. I've never seen a Mora folder, so don't know what the grind on those is.

Relevant discussion starts around 05:30 in this interview:

According to the head of production everything from Mora except the carving knives has a microbevel.

Regarding differering experiences with food... Could be different models explaining our different experiences. For example the Mora Companion comes in thicker stock for the stainless models than the carbon ones (I've only got stainless). But mine was definitly an ultimate wedgy monster. Soft foods, sure... it's good steel that takes a good edge, but harder stuff... not fun with the grind most of their knives have.
I'd expect that by the time it'll do good at food I think it'll become too fragile for actual woodwork anyway; I wouldn't use my Opinel to go split some wood or make some tinder either...

I think Dalman's suggestion is actually pretty good. If you know you're going into a scenario where you'll do a lot of work with wood, might as well bring an axe. Maybe a chainsaw while you're at it...

 

[Barmoley]

Interesting. Mine are from probably 20 years ago both stainless and carbon didn't have microbevels that I could detect. The discussions at that time were around this, if end users should put microbevels on these knives. This was when these first appeared and became popular in the US. Carbons I've seen have been thinner than stainless.

 

[Kawa]

Well I've seen discussions on this forum about the deffinition of a micro bevel. I think there were a lot of opinions.

The second link, 3th picture on the page shows very nicely how the edge looks in real life. Personally, I dont call that a microbevel, but a very small cutting edge (). Others may call that a microbevel? Since it is small, but still very visable to the eye, I think the youtube Mora guy most have on other knife as example: they are speeking about 'no visable edge, only under a microscope'.

I think they both have a small axe with them aswell. Now I think more of it, I think I remember them saying they atleast shave tinder for a starting fire. But they might open a can with it aswell

They are starting a hobby. If they like it and get more serious, knowing them, I would expect them to upgrade their gear. I can't imagine starting with the most expensive gear myself either. You have to learn from your beginners buys, but you only find that out by doing.



For the finishing gritt, I've seen all kinds of answers. Thank you all for the input and explanations!
For now I keep one at 5000 gritt, since I feel it has a good bite for now. I'll let them give me feedback about the field handling of the knife. I can pick a coarser gritt the second time and ask how that was in comparison.

It this point I can filet a normal 80gram printing paper; shaving a layer off without cutting through the paper. I've done worse...