First Japanese knife recommendation - Kikuichi?

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Slick

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As suggested, I'm looking to get my first Japanese knife and could use some help with recommendations. There is a small family-owned brick and mortar store local to me that I would love to support and buy a knife from them - but the only Japanese knives they sell are from Kikuichi. I did some quick research and it seems like Kikuichi makes good quality knives, but you pay a lot for the branding and heritage. I'm comfortable paying a few dollars more to support a local store, but if it just may not be worth it. That said, the questionnaire:

LOCATION
What country are you in?
USA


KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chefs knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)?
Gyuto (Kititsuke tip preferred) or possibly a nakiri (maybe eventually likely one of each, but suggestions on where to start are welcome as I'm new to this)
Are you right or left handed?
Right
Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Japanese handle preferred, but not a deal breaker
What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)?
210mm for gyuto
Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
Not for a gyuto. I actually think I would prefer carbon steel in the long run. Stainless preferred for a nakiri though
What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
Anything over $400 for a gyuto would be very tough to justify. I'd be okay with under $300


KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Home
What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)
Slice, chop, mince vegetables. Trim meat, slice boneless meat as well if gyuto.
What knife, if any, are you replacing?
Wusthof Classic Ikon
Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.)
Depends on the food. Pinch grip most often, but also finger tip at times
What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.)
Push cut, draw
What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
Primarily having a neutral to slightly forward balance. Fine tip suitable for mincing garlic, shallots, etc. Less belly to the profile. Sharper "feel"
Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)?
Nothing specific required. I like the looks of kurouchi, san-mai, and hammered finishes, but I'd be happy with a non-mirrored monosteel. Not really into polished/mirrored though
Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)?
Improved balance. A different/better handle shape (Octagonal ideally)
Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
Finer tip that is easier to use (less belly). Easier to sharpen and has the ability to take a finer edge.
Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
I have no complaints on the retention of my Wushtof, but I think I'd prefer something a little harder, in the HRC 59-62 range


KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
Yes
Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes
If not, are you interested in learning how to sharpen your knives? (Yes or no.)

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)



SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

I imagine I would be very happy to have the Wusthof for the tough items, a stainless nakiri for acidic vegetables and a carbon gyuto for everything else. That said, there's pretty much three questions I need help with to get started. First, is there anything in the Kikuichi line that is suitable and not extremely overpriced? I would greatly prefer to buy from the local store if it makes sense to do so. Second, is the recommendation for the first Japanese knife a gyuto or a nakiri? Finally, and assuming the recommendation is for a gyuto, is carbon steel an unwise selection at this point? I have an old carbon steel pocket knife and a carbon steel razor that always amaze me with how easily they sharpen and I'd like that in my kitchen knives too.

Thanks!
 
I’m not personally familiar with kikuichi but I believe they have a good rep.

For flatter profile, 210mm k-tip, thin and easy to sharpen - I think this just shouts Yoshikane. SKD is semi-stainless and is very easy to sharpen in the Yoshi, particularly because the edge is so thin.
https://knivesandstones.us/products...-210mm-stainless-cladding-with-nashiji-finish
For the nakiri, now is an excellent time to get a Watanabe Pro with the dollar so strong vs the yen.
 
Welcome and get ready for a lot of fun! The difference between a well-done Japanese (or -style) knife and that Ikon are tremendous.

I don't have firsthand experience with Kikuichi. I can tell you they don't get a lot of discussion around here for whatever that is worth. My take on them has always been that they are similar to other "volume" brands and it depends on the particular line more than the brand name. The same brand/maker can make very different knives.

Since you have the opportunity to handle one, why not give it a feel? What I would look for first is the weight. Is it lighter than your Ikon and is it blade-centric? Both are good traits. Then I'd want to be very mindful of the primary grind. Is it thinner from spine to edge than the Ikon? Again, an admirable trait. Is the general profile (edge) flatter than the Ikon so that there is more board contact for your style of cutting?

Now, understanding that I don't know about the Kikuichi, my thoughts are that you have the Ikon to handle tough stuff for now so I'd be looking for something thinner, lighter, more nimble and laser-y. There's a ton of options so I'll just pick a personal favorite:

https://www.epicedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=97274&bc=no
These are another "volume" brand but they are very well executed and will likely curl your toes the first time you cut with it compared to that Ikon. You get stainless cladding to help ease you in but with an excellent Aogami Super core. AS is an excellent steel that I find to be pretty resilient and it takes an awesome edge. You get the wa handle, nice fit and finish, good profile and well within your price range.

Once you get your first nice performing Japanese knife you'll undoubtedly be back asking for more inputs so I won't go into nakiri's but the suggested Watanabe Pro 180 is really hard to beat.

Gyuto is almost always going to be the recommended "first" shape. Don't fear carbon steels, especially if they're stainless clad. Before you know it, you might just be buying iron clad beauties. 😁

Now, all that said, you say you sharpen but not how you do it. Are you using bench stones?
 
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Thanks for the quick input. I'll definitely be looking more into these options later this evening. At first glance, that Yoshikane looks fantastic but I know nothing of SKD steel and will read a little more into it. Stainless cladded Aogami Super seems like a pretty ideal combination to me. I just wasn't sure if it was the best introduction into this style of knife. But if it's not discouraged then of course I'm up for it.

Before you know it, you might just be buying iron clad beauties. 😁
That is highly likely to happen. I also think they look amazing.

I'm going to stop at the store this week to check out what they have in stock and handle a few different options.

For knife sharpening, I have Suehiro Cerax 300, Cerax1k, and Rika 5k stones. I have some other ones that I inherited, including a King, and other sharpening gadgets, but they have all taken a backseat to the Suehiro stones since I purchased them. I also have a set of Naniwa super stones for the razor.

I was not planning on getting two knives right away, but plans very well may have to change.
 
Thanks for the quick input. I'll definitely be looking more into these options later this evening. At first glance, that Yoshikane looks fantastic but I know nothing of SKD steel and will read a little more into it. Stainless cladded Aogami Super seems like a pretty ideal combination to me. I just wasn't sure if it was the best introduction into this style of knife. But if it's not discouraged then of course I'm up for it.


That is highly likely to happen. I also think they look amazing.

I'm going to stop at the store this week to check out what they have in stock and handle a few different options.

For knife sharpening, I have Suehiro Cerax 300, Cerax1k, and Rika 5k stones. I have some other ones that I inherited, including a King, and other sharpening gadgets, but they have all taken a backseat to the Suehiro stones since I purchased them. I also have a set of Naniwa super stones for the razor.

I was not planning on getting two knives right away, but plans very well may have to change.

Yoshikane SKD is very well known and much loved. It’s a semi-stainless steel that IME is pretty close to stainless but sharpens as easily as carbon. It has a relatively flat profile in the back half which some don’t care for, but suits my personal cutting style.

A couple weeks ago I was talking with a knife maker about a custom and sent him a video of my yoshi cutting a sweet potato to illustrate the type of performance I was looking for. He responded that he’d just bought a yoshi SKD recently at the recommendation of his vendor.

The only downside is that it’s so thin behind the edge it can feel delicate, and isn’t suited for rough and tumble tasks. I bent the edge of mine cutting the roots off unpeeled garlic, but it’s so easy to sharpen the damage cleaned up quickly.

Regarding AS, I personally like it quite a bit. It can look quite striking combined with ku-finished stainless cladding - the AS will take a dark grey patina which contrasts against the stainless. I’ll include a photo of my stainless-clad AS petty below so you can see how these look after some use. I think it’s a great no-fuss combination.

D03EC295-B12D-436E-A70A-0705C77B30C5.jpeg
 
Yoshikane are killer slicers. The first time you use one it is a standards-shifting experience. That said, they are ground quite flat at the heel and I could just never get passed that. It was just too abrupt of a stop for me and never felt right. But, like @Delat, lots and lots of people love them. The quality is there for sure so it's just about personal preferences, use case, etc.
 
If there is no pressing need you better get IMHO new knives one by one. Much more fun, more time to get it know, getting used to its properties, fine tuning both your technique and the sharpening. I like to use a new knife at home for literally all task. Peeling an apple with a suji or a hankotsu: all to get to know it better.
 
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