First stone setup and a couple related questions

Discussion in 'Sharpening Station' started by X-JaVeN-X, Jun 11, 2019.

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  1. Jun 11, 2019 #1

    X-JaVeN-X

    X-JaVeN-X

    X-JaVeN-X

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    Hey all! If you haven't seen any of my previous threads, let me preface this post with the fact that I'm blind (sorry if this is redundant but it may affect recommendations).

    So, I'm starting to grow my kitchen knife collection and have recently decided to start dabbling with sharpening my own knives. I've tried my best to watch (mostly listen to, really) videos on sharpening to try and build a mental picture of what I'm doing. I purchased a cheap 2 sided diamond plate with and adjustable holder on Ebay (400/1000 grit) that I've been practicing with on cheap knives that have been thrown in drawers and haven't been useable for a long time. I've made them all very functional at this point and my wife says the edges are much more even than when I first started. I can tell a big difference as well when testing on newspaper as well. I've learned how to feel for burrs and have been wrapping the plate with newspaper at the end to remove burr and strop.

    Anyway, I'm at the point where I want to invest in a better set of stones but need help with choosing for my needs. So here is a short list of what I have and what I'm looking for.

    1. I have a wide variety of steels from aus8 to blue#2, As. and r2. I will likely end up dabbling with some of the really hard zdp or hap40 type steels in the future.

    2. I want splash and go stones.

    3. Stone feedback is a big plus for me obviously.

    4. White or very light colored stones are a plus for a high contrast slurry left by knife.

    5. I'm not really looking to go over 5k/6k range as these knives are used and still need some bite.

    6. I'm a "buy once, cry once" type person. So I don't want a "beginner" set that i will ultimately replace later.

    So, with these concerns which route do you recommend? The traditional atoma 140 (flattener) plus 1k/3k/6k type progression or should I go a diamond stone route like the ones from jki that don't really need flattening?

    Also, what is a nagura? I'm a little confused on what it's used for or is it only for certain stone types?

    Lastly, what are your brand /stone suggestions in path of choice?

    I was looking at the shapton glass stones but I dont seem to see a lot of followers for them here?

    Let me hear some opinions. Thanks!
     
  2. Jun 11, 2019 #2

    JustinP

    JustinP

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    I don't have anywhere the experience of other here, so I'll let them make the stone suggestions.

    This I can answer though :D

    Naguras are used like an eraser to clean contamination from the stones surface. Mostly used on higher grit stones. They are also used to help work up a slurry on stones.
     
  3. Jun 11, 2019 #3

    slickmamba

    slickmamba

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    Can't ever go wrong with a chosera 800 and 3000 pair with a atoma 140. The 3000 is the most loved chosera afaik, and the 800 is great, some like the 1000. I prefer the finish on the 3000 with a strop to follow after, but you can also pick up the shapton glass 6000 or gesshin 6000 to finish or lots of other options. The gesshin 1200 and 2000 are supposed to be great medium grit stones as well, I haven't had the pleasure yet tho
     
  4. Jun 11, 2019 #4

    ryanjams

    ryanjams

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    King deluxe 300, shapton pro 2000, arashiyama 6000 is a killer and very affordable setup if you shop around a bit. Arishayama can be used splash and go, especially for just a quick touchup or strop after 1/2k, though it feels better after a soak esp if you're really polishing. My most used stones even as I've dipped into jnats and higher end synths. Been liking chosera 400 but it's too slow for heavy thinning imo. Gesshin stones are some of the best feeling and performing, worth the price of admission but mine are soakers and I don't have room to permasoak at work so the kit I recommended gets the job done.
     
  5. Jun 11, 2019 #5

    slickmamba

    slickmamba

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    Toss them in the toilet reservoir if back of house has a private one :p
     
  6. Jun 11, 2019 #6

    Elliot

    Elliot

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    +1 on the Chosera 800 and 3k pairing.
     
  7. Jun 11, 2019 #7

    tundraotto

    tundraotto

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    +1 on the Chosera 800/3000 for splash & go

    if toilet tank is an option for soakers
    Suehiro cerax 320, 1000 and Rika 5000
     
  8. Jun 12, 2019 #8

    nevrknow

    nevrknow

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    Damn the torpedoes. Kohetsu 800 and 2k. White (for visual) and awesome stones. Definitely the Rika 5k if you need to go higher. But all of these require a soak so my vote is for the Shapton glass.

    You can work up a slurry with any diamond or lesser grit stone. But with another stone you “could” get cross contamination. You would need a cheap flattening plate before Nagura.

    With Nagura you are getting into ( way more then you need to think about if you are just starting) very advanced level sharpeners. Honestly this is a grey area WAY to over thought if you just want a great edge. Having said that, it is another great aspect of this hobby of mine.

    Splash and go? Shapton glass ( per your specs of easy to see and completely understandable) . Start with that and see how you like your edges. After that the skies the limit.
     
  9. Jun 12, 2019 #9

    X-JaVeN-X

    X-JaVeN-X

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    Thanks for the replies. I will look into the options mentioned so far and thanks for clearing up the nature. I will steer clear of it for now. I can already see this being a rabbit hole kinda hobby but really I think it's just a tangent brought on by the kitchen knife bug I already have. My wife caught me trying to sharpen the pizza cutter the other day lol. She thought I was crazy. I told her I couldn't find any more blades in the house to sharpen and if she let me buy more knives then the pizza cutter would still be safe in the drawer. Ha!
     
  10. Jun 12, 2019 #10

    X-JaVeN-X

    X-JaVeN-X

    X-JaVeN-X

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    So, I just noticed that the shapton glass stones have a diamond lapping stone. It is like $300! Is there a need for this or will a $70 atoma 140 do the same thing? Also, along those lines, I see some use a higher grit atoma 400 for grits above 5k or so. Is this necessary or is a 140 ok for a 6k chosera or shapton glass?
     
  11. Jun 21, 2019 #11

    inferno

    inferno

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    Hi i see you didn't get any response here.
    the shapton plate is most likely much better and longer lasting than the atomas, and if you send a worn out in to shapton they will recoat it for you, probably for life.

    you can use an atoma 140 for everything. and then simply rub 2 highish grit stones together like a 6k and a 1k to get the 6k completely smooth.


    1. I have a wide variety of steels from aus8 to blue#2, As. and r2. I will likely end up dabbling with some of the really hard zdp or hap40 type steels in the future.

    shapton glass does everything. the choseras/naniwa pros like they are called now does that too though.

    2. I want splash and go stones.

    the glass stones are the "most" splash and go of them all. they basically dry in like 5 minutes. the shapton pro dries very fast too imo. choseras/nani pros takes at least 1-2-3h to dry, at least.

    3. Stone feedback is a big plus for me obviously.
    i think both glass and shappro feel very nice. ymmv though.

    4. White or very light colored stones are a plus for a high contrast slurry left by knife.

    glass

    5. I'm not really looking to go over 5k/6k range as these knives are used and still need some bite.

    glass 1k, 3k and 6k sounds like a good combo. those are actually some of my favorite stones. especially the 3k. I think the 3k is the best combo of speed and final edge for all common steel you can get pretty much

    6. I'm a "buy once, cry once" type person. So I don't want a "beginner" set that i will ultimately replace later.

    Me too. get either glass/pro or naniwa chosera/pro if you want good dependable quality across the whole range imo. the glass stones are pretty much all the same, they are just finer or coarser.

    I see lots of people think the glass stones are very thin. but these stones are very slow wearing imo. for home use you could potentially never wear out a 3k even after 20 years. the nani pros are faster wearing for sure. and they release a lot more abrasive. the glass release as close to 0 abrasive as possible imo. Both are very good stones though.

    I think ion the sub 1k category the glass 220 and 500 double thickness one are the best i have tried and then for 1k;
    the shapton pro 1k (really 800) is very very very good. and also the naniwa pro 800 (really 1-1,2k) is just as good but slightly different. I have also owned the naniwa pro 1k but its more like a 1500 imo. but its a very good stone imo. a bit messy though to work with since it releses quite a lot of green abrasive.
    Above 1k i think the naniwa pro 2k is good (its really a 3k in finish) and also the shapton pro 2k (real 2k), glass 2k, glass 3k, glass 4k and glass 6k are really nice. You dont need all of them.

    if you have a plate then you need a 1k then some mid grit 2-4k (you deciede) and then a fine one. i would suggest going no further than 5-6k myself.
    1-2-4 would be nice
    and also 1-3-6.

    i have many stones and for stainless blades i think its important to have the 2, 3 and 4k at hand. since some of them will only take and benefit froma 2k but some can up to 3k and some may even take a 4k (like poweder steels like r2 and similar. and above that is only for carbons steels like blue/white imo. just wasted time with SS. trust me. some even say everything above 1k is waster with SS. its basically all up to you.

    for me:
    global and worse - 2k
    mac and similar, maybe good vg10 - 3k
    powder/r2/srs15 - 4k
    blue/white/1095/52100/o1 - 6-8k

     
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  12. Jun 21, 2019 #12

    Nick112

    Nick112

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    I bought the atome 600 to flatten my 8000 grit stone and am very happy w the results. I also use it for my 1k and 3k stone. Just my 2c
     
  13. Jun 21, 2019 #13

    gstriftos

    gstriftos

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    @inferno, may I ask do you have any experience with Shapton Pro rough grits?
    I am asking about these because the only place I can find (in EU) the double thick Glass 500 id Dictum, but their shipping to Greece is extremely high, Pro's are available on other vendors too (like fine-tools) with shipping fees that are, the least, acceptable.
    To make it simple, for the cost of one Double thick 500 I can get a Pro rough grit and the Pro 5000.


    Edit: I already have Shapton Pro 2000 and looking for a rough one (preferably splash and go) and a finisher at around 5000 grit (I consider also Rika for this grit, or any other suggestion).
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2019
  14. Jun 21, 2019 #14

    Michi

    Michi

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    The Shapton Pro 320 has a good reputation. (I bought one recently, but haven't had a chance to use it yet.)

    The Rika 5000 is an excellent finishing stone, highly recommended!
     
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  15. Jun 21, 2019 #15

    DisconnectedAG

    DisconnectedAG

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    I have the Shapton Pro 320, it's great. As OP is looking for splash and go, I'd suggest going pure Shapton Pro: 320, 1k, 5k.

    There are other stones that I'd personally like to try, like JKI's 2k gesshin, but that's a soaker, so not right for the query.
     
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  16. Jun 21, 2019 #16

    Spadazzo88

    Spadazzo88

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    I have the atoma 400 for lapping.
    Then I use for my stainless cheap knives shapton pros. 1k and 2k
    I have the 5k but never used for kitchen, only on some high end pocket knives.
    I love these stones
     

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