Flipper alert

Discussion in 'The Off Topic Room' started by RDalman, Apr 29, 2018.

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  1. Feb 16, 2020 #361

    chinacats

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    Maybe this would be a good thread for you to ignore if it bothers you every time someone posts? I would imagine that it may be very useful to someone who is just learning the ropes...i happen to enjoy seeing shitheads be called out when appropriate.
     
  2. Feb 16, 2020 #362

    M1k3

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  3. Feb 16, 2020 #363

    Bensbites

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    Yes, I sold a Dalmon I won. Yes I disclosed I won the knife and the origin of the contest. Yes, I emailed Mr Dalmon before hand and asked him how much I could give him to make him whole on the resale. I was open and honest in every way to avoid this exact conversation.

    what should I have done? Sat on the knife? I can promise you that several of the people who borrowed the knife went in to purchase Dalmans. Atleast one of them is on this forum.
     
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  4. Feb 16, 2020 #364

    RDalman

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    When Bunsbites asked for adviced on pricing I adviced low, like 50 usd max, as they really are scrap imo.

    But it's true people do what they like with their property. I'm not going to say anything about that.
     
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  5. Feb 16, 2020 #365

    Bensbites

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    Robin, you never suggested any price. That is flat out false. You suggested I ask people what it is worth.
     
  6. Feb 16, 2020 #366

    ma_sha1

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    If I just made $500 from someone’s free gift, I would not have thrown him under the bus even if his recollections weren’t exactly accurate.

    Usually not a good idea to bite the hand that fed you, just saying.
     
  7. Feb 16, 2020 #367

    RDalman

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    Yes a max 50 was recollected wrong, probably max value that stayed in my head. What I wrote:
    "I don't need a cut of course the knife is yours to do whatever you want with. On value I have no idea, I would probably put it low, you could ask the guys wanting to buy it what it's worth to them, maybe try to explain it's shape and flaws"
     
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  8. Feb 16, 2020 #368

    Bensbites

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    thank you for posting this.
     
  9. Feb 16, 2020 #369

    F-Flash

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    What IMO should be done with such knives if you decide to pass them along, would be sell them for low. Like 100usd max including fees. Or even better as Robin did, pass them along for free..

    But it is/was yours and you can do as you please with it.
     
  10. Feb 16, 2020 #370

    ma_sha1

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    I didn’t see this transaction the same way as other type of flippers that messed with KKFers. This one really did no harm.

    I was a victim of a Shig. Flipping that I’d classify as “damaging” to KKF.

    I was 5 min. too late on BST for a Shig. Kasumi. only to find out the buyer flipped it days later. I lost the opportunity to see my first Shig., had to wait for months until I get hands on one. I would have rage quit KKF if I hade another forum to go, lol.

    I usually do not have problem with flipping, for example small increase of up to $50 to cover paypal fees & losses from other selling etc. are reasonable IMHO. Just don’t snatch up BST with the sole purpose for flipping for a few quick bucks.
     
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  11. Feb 16, 2020 #371

    Brian Weekley

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    I am the buyer of the first rust bucket. As I am recently to the world of KKF and knives by western makers I did not know the meaning of “rust bucket” when it came to Dalman’s knives. I wanted a “user” Dalman and, as it seemed reasonably priced in relation to Dalman’s current production, I moved to buy it. So .... I’m at least 50% of this particular “flipper” problem and for that I apologize to all. Sincerely, I apologize! This isn’t my first rodeo. Over the years I’ve been involved in other interests and online markets. Flipping is a problem. What separates “flipping” from taking a reasonable profit over all of the costs involved and the time elapsed since first purchase, or in this case ... gift, is difficult to quantify and to put into words. BUT ... like meat that’s gone off ... one easily recognizes “flipping” from the off smell.

    Here’s the rub, though, .... I got what I paid for. I paid $500 plus shipping for a knife that I wanted as a daily user. Would I have paid $600 ... probably ... $700 ... maybe. Should the OP have advertised the knife for $200 ... $300 ... offered to give it away? That doesn’t seem fair.

    Is Dalman at fault for making such darn fine knives that demand far outstrips supply? Can’t really blame him for making knives that people really want and hence a bit of a buying frenzy when one comes up.

    Should I have researched the meaning of “rust bucket” more and refused to purchase the knife at the advertised price of $500? Probably ... by doing what I did I created the first round of the “flip”. All I can do is apologize and resolve to not move so quickly in the future. That will be tough for me because a life in business has taught me that not moving decisively generally results in lost opportunity. As I become to know the market better I would not been taken in by by the flip. Despite the fact that I wanted the knife I would refuse to feed the flip. That would IMO have been the best course of action. Would the knife have still sold ... probably. Dalman’s knives, even rust buckets, don’t come up every day.

    In Defense of the OP he did say that he had contacted Dalman and offered to share the selling price with him. That was probably the correct approach to take. If Dalman declined, the next best approach would probably have been to donate half the proceeds to KKF. Without the BST market the flip couldn’t have taken place.

    It’s a tough subject and there are no easy answers. I hope I have added to the conversation.
     
  12. Feb 16, 2020 #372

    Bensbites

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    Thank you.
     
  13. Feb 16, 2020 #373

    Xenif

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    Hold on a second here .... Where do we draw the line on what constitutes a flip?

    Case #1: Person wins giveaway for free, decided to sell or trade, must assign value. What would be a proper value to assign?

    Case #2: Persons wins raffle for a very low price (let say $25 raffle wins $600 msrp), can that person assign a sell/trade value of the msrp without being considered a flipper?

    Case #3: Person buys knife from 2013 (let say a Shig Kasumi for $350), it is now 2020 and the "market price" is now doubled, if that person was to sell/trade, what would be the appropriate value?

    Case #4: Person buys knife for $X, works on thinning it and reprofiling it, then puts a sell/trade value of $X+$50
     
  14. Feb 16, 2020 #374

    AT5760

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    If there were clear lines, this thread probably wouldn’t be so active. I appreciate the discussions that come from this thread, provided they are respectful and people don’t jump to conclusions.
     
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  15. Feb 16, 2020 #375

    Dhoff

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    In my Humble opinion none og those cases are (on the surface) flippings or even bad taste.

    Selling knives that are designated as faulty by the Maker and thus given away is not something is personally do, but in both cases the Sellers have made full Disclosure.
     
  16. Feb 16, 2020 #376

    FoRdLaz

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    My 2c:
    As I understand it Robin out of his generosity offered a knife that he considered flawed (not worth selling) but reasonable to work with as a giveaway.
    The fact that whoever took possession of this knife (and others) and decided to sell it on is an insult to Robin and his generosity and the fact that he made available his flawed knives to someone for free not for any profit.
    After this it’s unlikely that Robin (or any other maker for that matter) would give away their flawed knives and one of the reasons is as follows:
    Once this knife has changed hands a few times (for sure for a profit every time) it’s original provenance will be forgotten. At some point it will come into someone’s hands as a “Dalman” without the knowledge that it’s a second/rust bucket knife - and then Robin will be judged against it.
    This is fundamentally wrong.
    The correct thing to do is to pass on the same favour that Robin originally made.
    This isn’t a knife that was won in a raffle - in that case I would 100% agree it is the winners prerogative what to do with it and how much to sell it for.
    But for a knife obtained for free (or a nominal price)as a second it should never be used for profiteering.
     
  17. Feb 16, 2020 #377

    panda

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    Pretty low class to profit off a knife that was given away..

    I was given a knife by dalman and it was pretty good one which I gave to a friend as a gift.
     
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  18. Feb 16, 2020 #378

    FoRdLaz

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    This is how it should be. Just pay it forward. It’s the honorable thing to do.

    And hiding behind “I asked Robin and he said to do with it what I wanted” is no excuse.

    It’s simple logic and courtesy to understand the dynamics of the transaction

    As I said a knife won in a raffle or a completion or whatever is a different story.
     
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  19. Feb 16, 2020 #379

    pete84

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    Stunning that some people feel they are “Victims” of flipping. Not buying a $500-1000+ kitchen knife at one particular opportunity makes someone a “victim”? Pathetic mentality.

    And some people publicly refer to other members “shitheads” in this thread because they dont agree with them or their decisions... also pathetic.

    This thread represents a one-sided cesspool of negativity and useless vitriol. Under the pretext of “call out culture” and the “community justice” banner, the ani-flippers are creating as toxic an environment and doing as much harm (possibly more) to KKF as the supposed “flipping” they are attempting to police.

    Many of the outspoken “anti-flippers” have bought from people labeled “flippers” when it suited them. Many “anti-flippers” flip knives themselves and don't get called out. (You know who you are.)

    After getting “called out” here and defending myself, the mod team decided defending their one of their own is more important than social justice for me as a member. They edited/deleted posts in which I answered criticisms and defended myself, then tried to reverse the argument by saying I was being “inflammatory”. Isn’t inflammatory discussion the reason why this thread exists? Yet opposing viewpoints get censored? Unbelievable.

    Since then, many members reached out to me privately in agreement and to denounce the members and mods here whose hypocrisy and “anti-flipper” vitriol only serve to create further divisions in this community.

    Expect to see me back in BST, bitches
     
  20. Feb 16, 2020 #380

    Dhoff

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    True, I actually re-entered the thread to state that I felt sorry for Robin. Having knives he is not happy with circulating at the same price as his prime work is not okay.

    A suggestion if any makers are so generous again would be to mark the knives somehow? I feel it is a bit sad that it seems to be an issue though.

    From his general postings I do not feel @Bensbites is a bad person though :(
     
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  21. Feb 16, 2020 #381

    Dhoff

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    If you cannot see this from the Makers perspective you are less of a person than I thought mate.
     
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  22. Feb 16, 2020 #382

    FoRdLaz

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    The only one spouting useless vitriol is yourself it seems.
    There are many valid points raised here (and I’m talking specifically about this Dalman second).
    No maker wants his seconds out there circulating for close to full value.
    Yet many have had the opportunity to use and own one to all intents and purposes for free.
    To sell those for profit defeats the generosity of the makers, who have given opportunity of ownership to those who may never have got the chance to otherwise.
    You should be cognizant of this more than anyone else...
    #doublestandards
     
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  23. Feb 16, 2020 #383

    labor of love

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    Maybe cutting back on caffeine would be a good idea for you.
     
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  24. Feb 16, 2020 #384

    pete84

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    I understand Robin is upset and people dont agree with that member’s decision but what gives the community the right to have a say in regards to private property?

    Once it becomes private property, its up to the owner what they do with it. Bottom line.

    For example, when you sell a used car to someone, does it matter what Ford or GM or Toyota thinks about the pricing? They made it, put a price on it, and got paid what they asked. Once paid for, its your property and their opinion is moot.
     
  25. Feb 16, 2020 #385

    pete84

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    I will reduce caffeine when you start drinking your Shutup juice. Agreed?
     
  26. Feb 16, 2020 #386

    labor of love

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    You’re missing the entire point of this thread.
     
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  27. Feb 16, 2020 #387

    labor of love

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    We CAN talk about how we feel on this thread about what happens on BST and how we feel about it. The sooner you understand that we’re exchanging ideas here and not telling anyone what to do the better off you might be.
     
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  28. Feb 16, 2020 #388

    pete84

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    Yes, because this thread has degenerated into something pointless
     
  29. Feb 16, 2020 #389

    labor of love

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    I get it. You want to sell knives at whatever price you feel like selling them at and expect no one to comment on it. That’s not going to happen here.
    Cry me a river.
    Edit.
    Oh wait, you already have.
     
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  30. Feb 16, 2020 #390

    FoRdLaz

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    You’re deluded.
     
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